#459 – Why Being a Brand Matters More Than Ever in E-Commerce with Cara Sayer
Join us on this captivating journey with Cara Sayer, a seasoned entrepreneur thriving in the online marketplace since 2009. Listen in as Cara shares her inspiring evolution from an Amazon seller to a brand owner, emphasizing the importance of brand identity in standing out amidst the crowded e-commerce space. Cara’s story began with a simple yet innovative idea, a blackout blind and shade for strollers inspired by her desire to help her daughter sleep better on the go. Her narrative is a testament to a problem-solving mindset and determination to bring innovative products to market, even during the early days of social media.
As we continue the conversation, Cara provides insights into the challenges and successes she faced transitioning from a traditional retail model to a direct-to-consumer approach on Amazon. We discuss the necessity of taking control by eliminating resellers, navigating Amazon’s category system, and adapting to market demands. Cara shares the strategic moves she made, such as transitioning from Vendor Central to Seller Central to manage better pricing and inventory, and the importance of maintaining a flexible team of freelancers to accommodate the seasonal nature of the business. Her story highlights the balance between scalability and maintaining operational efficiency, offering valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Throughout our discussion, we explore the evolving e-commerce landscape and the importance of branding over mere product selling. Cara’s passion-driven approach is evident as she shares how she balances business growth with quality of life, emphasizing customer interaction and flexible work hours. We touch on the transformative potential of AI in retail and the shifting consumer habits across different generations and platforms. The conversation concludes with a focus on maintaining a presence outside of Amazon, the potential impact of competitors like TikTok entering the e-commerce space, and the necessity of understanding marketing fundamentals. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to succeed in the dynamic world of e-commerce.
In episode 459 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin and Cara discuss:
- 00:00 – Building a Brand in E-Commerce
- 04:46 – Entrepreneur Finds Manufacturer Through Contacts
- 11:26 – Navigating E-Commerce Challenges and Success
- 11:44 – Direct Sales Success Through Social Media
- 16:08 – Entrepreneurial Mindset in E-Commerce
- 21:16 – Advantages of Custom Stroller Accessories
- 24:11 – Building an Emotional Brand Connection
- 30:58 – Expanding Product Line Plans
- 33:31 – Product Copying and IP Protection
- 36:14 – Staying Engaged in Sustainable Business
- 37:47 – Corporate Discontent and Entrepreneurial Freedom
- 42:50 – Challenges of Trading in the EU
- 46:09 – Adapting to Changing E-Commerce Landscape
- 49:45 – Evolving Trends in E-Commerce
- 53:44 – The Importance of Marketing in Business
- 56:49 – Engaging Audience Interaction and Feedback
Transcript
Kevin King:
Episode 459 of the AM/PM podcast. This week, I’m speaking with Cara Sayer. Cara has been selling online since she invented her product in 2009. She’s been on Amazon over 10 years, but the key thing here is she’s not an Amazon seller, she’s a brand owner, and that’s what we’re going to talk about the importance of brand and how to differentiate between being just a seller and being a brand. Enjoy this episode with Cara Sayer. Look what I got on the AM/PM podcast today. I got a special one for you. I got the beautiful Cara Sayer. How are you doing, Cara?
Cara:
Yeah, really, really good. I’m busy as ever, flying around, going to some useful conferences, meeting useful people, having interesting conversations, learning about things everyday. Every day is a school day. So, yeah, my daughter’s just passed her driving test, which is very scary to think that she’s now on the roads. I haven’t actually yet had a lift. In fact, this is something I need to bring up with her. I haven’t actually had a useful lift from her yet, so I haven’t been to a restaurant or bar or something and then got her to pick me up, which is what all my friend’s children do. But she’s just gaily gallivanting around in her car and mommy’s just sitting at home crying quietly.
Kevin King:
And I thought I thought today’s age. I know a lot of kids when I don’t know what’s the legal age in, uh, the UK?
Cara:
In UK, you can, uh, you get your driver’s license at 17 um.
Kevin King:
16 in most of the US and I know I know several people that several of my friends that have uh young, uh kids and when they turn 16, a lot of them now don’t even want to drive. They’re like what’s the point? I got Uber and Lyft and my buddy’s got a car. I remember when I, when I, when I turned 16, I was first one in line at 7am in the morning when the driving license office opened to take the test.
Cara:
Absolutely well, I mean to be fair. She drives herself to school. She’s got a job in a restaurant so she drives herself there, she trains what’s it called, coaches other children in cricket, so she’s got quite a busy little life and it’s great actually. I don’t have to drive her around anymore. So mum’s taxi has been retired.
Kevin King:
Oh, but you know that between 16 and 18 is the most accident-prone time of a driver’s life.
Cara:
Well, she’ll probably not really appreciate me saying this, but she has already had a slight prang and she’s also had a speeding ticket, which, luckily, they’ve let her off as such. So she has to do a speed awareness so she’s not done too badly, considering she’s only 17 and passed the driving test about five weeks ago. Having said that, sometimes I feel like these lessons are put upon you to learn. So she’s now like I will never speed again and try and get into a parking space that I can’t easily get into again. I’m like good, because that’s actually a very important life lesson.
Kevin King:
That is they got, they got to learn it. You got to let them go and they got to learn it and just pray that they stay safe.
Cara:
Exactly, she’s a good little driver. Actually, even people who haven’t seen her drive before, like oh she’s, you know, she’s quite confident and you know, not a scary driver. I, if I’m honest, boys are worse than girls as a general rule.
Kevin King:
I think so too, but I mean, I think you’re a pretty good little driver. You’re driving a very successful little Amazon business there.
Cara:
I’m not that good to move into that.
Kevin King:
You’ve been doing for quite some time. I mean, I know the general story a little bit, but maybe for the audience you can tell them how long you’ve been playing this game.
Cara:
So, as I think you know as well, I don’t actually consider myself to be an Amazon seller. I actually consider myself which is actually true to be a brand, and Amazon is my most large and successful sales channel. But I actually started 15 years ago now, um in 2010, I launched, so I started, my um idea process around 2008. So that was when Holly was just around a year old, something like that, and um, I’d had an idea for a product that would help her sleep when we were out and about with the stroller. Um would also keep her protected from the sun, the insects, um, wind chill, et cetera. And I looked around and I couldn’t find a product that did that, and so I don’t even, to be honest, to this day, I still don’t really know why I decided to do it. I think I’m a problem solver. I like, if you give me a problem, I’m first thing, I’m like, oh, how do I solve that? You know that’s great. And so I decided to start inventing something and I created something that now I mean, I found the prototype the other day and it’s completely useless, um, but I kind of came up with the concept, started working on. It, started talking to people.
Cara:
Remember, this is like before. Well, for Instagram, Facebook was there, but not really very big. Um, Twitter had only just launched at the end of 2009, um, and so I came up with the concept of a, basically a blackout blind and shade, uh, for the stroller. And, uh, I went to find I found a manufacturer. Again, remember, this is all pre. Nowadays it’s all much easier to access. How do you find a manufacturer? How do you find someone in China or anywhere really? And I did all of it through contacts. So I used to work in a publishing house and we used to put things called cover mounts on the front of a magazine which is all the free gifts you get, like you, you know you’ll get like a free makeup bag or free shaving kit or whatever it might be, and those are called cover mounts. And I worked for a baby magazine and I said, well, who’s doing the cover mounts for them? Because I knew when I worked there that they had to be safety tested, and I’ve always been obsessed with safety and producing something for my own baby is one thing, but I wanted to make sure my products were super safe, got given the details of someone who I still work with now. So 15 years on, I’m still working with the same manufacturer who basically produces. Her real business, I say, is producing promotional gifts for brands like Xero and Zoom and Facebook and all that sort of thing. Peloton was one, and then she was a mother of four.
Cara:
So I went to meet her, told her what my idea was, and she was oh, that’s genius, really good idea. And I started working on prototypes with her and the factory etc. And got to a point where I was like ok, what am I going to do with this? And there was a trade show in the US. You’ve got the ABC kids. In the UK we had one called BPA, which is no longer happens, but they had an innovation area which was a slightly cheaper area for new, young brands to go in and show their stuff. So I went in thinking, well, worst case scenario, people will just laugh me out of town, that’s not a problem. But I also would get feedback. I wasn’t even really looking to sell, actually, I was just looking to get feedback about whether the concept was a good one. And then I actually had an order placed by one of the larger retail chains in the UK, independent retail chains which is called Jojo Mamonbebe and I think they’ve now recently not that long ago expanded into the US market and they placed an order on the spot and I was like, excuse my breath, what do I do now?
Kevin King:
Did you even have a price at that point, or did you have to just make up a price?
Cara:
I was still working out my pricing. So at the time I mean, that was one of the reasons it was great going to that show, because I still use the pricing model from then that I created then. I’m still using it now. And so I sort of spoke to a few people and actually what I found out was there was a product that was, I say, similar it wasn’t really similar but had a similar concept that literally launched a couple of weeks before I went to the show. And before I went to the show I was like, oh, what’s the point? You know, why am I bothering? You know, there’s another product out there that’s going to do a similar thing and they’ve obviously got more contacts and all the rest of it there, you know. And anyway, that product wasn’t as actually, if I’m honest, as good as mine, and so lots of people were like, well, actually yours is a lot better, it’s better quality, it’s better this, it’s better that, you should charge more. So I was like okay. So I came up with my final price um and um and then just told the retailer this is the price, the RRP, uh, the you know manufacturer’s price, and this is the price you’ll be buying it from, um. And then I went into full-scale production, which was so the show was in the October, so Christmas that year was fun. I was like literally pulling my hair out. You know all sorts of things like rushing everything through. And then the Icelandic and we know about Iceland and volcanoes from our recent trip to BDSS and the volcano exploded in 2010, which then shut all the airways down for quite a long time, and so I ended up flying product in because it was selling so fast. I needed to get stock in, so that cost me an absolute fortune even in those days, and basically the amount of stock that I’d worked on for the first year I sold, I think, in about seven months.
Kevin King:
This was coming from China.
Cara:
Yeah, it was coming from China.
Kevin King:
Well, and so then, this big retailer took it. Then did you expand out other retailers start come knocking and saying hey, we want it too.
Cara:
Yeah, so I’ve made a few other contacts with other retailers at the show and also just afterwards. I that was another thing that was useful, you know, making contact with other brands and they had contacts at other retailers. So I started stalking everyone and I got into other retailers. I also picked up my first UK distributor there as well. So they then got me into all of the big boys. So I went into like Tesco and Boots, like the equivalent of, like Target and Walmart and you know, all of those big like retailers, and so basically my product was in every single major UK retailer in the country within about the first nine months of launch and I mean I think it was on sale. I think it’s been on sale via the distributor. They were selling it on Amazon via Vendor Central and then I think they then also sold to smaller resellers as well. So there were quite a lot of people selling it right from the get-go.
Kevin King:
So did you work for a baby magazine? Did they give you some press or they do anything in that?
Cara:
Yeah, I actually won an award from them, I think before launching pretty much, which was good, and I also got a quote from their editor of like who looked after product recommendations, and she did a quote saying it’s like a really fantastic idea and every parent needs one sort of thing. So, yeah, I did, I maximize. So my background is PR and marketing, uh, before I had Holly. So I actually was on the team that launched Amazon in the UK when it was a book warehouse in slough back in 2000 as well.
Kevin King:
Um, and you’re on the PR team, not?
Cara:
Yeah, I work for an agent as part of the launch um, launch uh strategy and we I launched online food shopping in the UK with Tesco, which is one of the big grocery stores. So, you know, my background has always been more PR marketing, which is why I always sort of laugh, really because you know, Amazon for me is an absolute pain in the ass excuse my French because it is so irritating and so frustrating. When there’s a problem, it always seems to get exemplified by about a thousand-fold and it can be really, really challenging, but I don’t really think about it that much, if I’m honest, in my day-to-day business. It’s just somewhere where I know my customers buy my product.
Kevin King:
So, what year did you actually jump to start selling on Amazon? So you said that your distributor was doing it wholesale into Amazon but then what year did you actually?
Cara:
I also had, like a US distributor, New Zealand distributor, Australia distributor, UAE distributor, I had multiple distributors, et cetera. The crunch point was getting divorced, which is always a fun time in life.
Kevin King:
Oh yeah, that’s always a blast.
Cara:
We have that in common.
Kevin King:
Yeah, we do.
Cara:
So basically, I was in a position where I had to really look at the numbers of the business and so, whilst it looked great from the outside, there’s a lot of volume, the actual net margin was quite low because obviously, when you sell to a distributor, you’ve got to sell to a distributor at a price where you then have they’ve got to be able to make money and sell to the retailer and the retailers sometimes want you know, one of them in the UK wants 60% margin. So, you’ve got to factor that in. So, I was and also the other thing is a huge. There’s a lot of risk doing that as well in terms of having to produce like volume of stock. So, I would have to, like Tesco would say we want 4,000 units. So, I’d have to produce that 4,000 units. Whether they bought them or not was neither here nor there, and I mean usually they did and sometimes in fact they’ve been playing because I ran out of stock and I’d be like, well, you told me you wanted 4,000, I’ve given you 4,000. Literally, what else do you want me to do? So, when I was getting divorced, I really really looked at the numbers and I was like, do you know what? I need to take the middleman out of this because I need to be selling more direct. And then I saw on Facebook and you’ll obviously know the reality of this, and the fact that these are obviously true stories, is the fact that you can sit on the beach all day and just hear the tick-tick kachinging into your Amazon account.
Kevin King:
I know, isn’t it great, isn’t it great?
Cara:
I love it, I love it. So you just sit there drinking cocktails with your sunnies on, on a beach lounger.
Kevin King:
Exactly.
Cara:
While you are selling on Amazon. And I thought wow, I want me some of that. Thank you very much.
Kevin King:
Toes in the sand and just with a nice drink in your hand.
Cara:
Exactly, exactly. So I thought, yes, I’ll have me some of that, thank you very much. But then I went to a conference which, I have to say, I look back on now I mean, oh my God, it was a dreadful conference, it was a real. I can’t even remember the name of the people who did it, but they did everything that I hate in some conferences. They had people up on the stage where my mom was dying of cancer and my Amazon business seriously hardcore. I was like oh God. And then they did the whole run to the front of the stage. I’m like sod that I don’t run, thank you. So there was all of this rubbish going on, but what it did make me realize is that there are people out there who were selling at the time a lot of garlic crushers and posture adjusters and all that, and they were making a lot of money and I thought, well, if they’re selling fairly boring products really and making a lot of money, I must be able to do better selling my product, which has actually got some real USPs etc. And you know some, some, some extra source behind it. So one of the things I had to do was take a reality pill, which is sometimes, I think, when you are more of a brand, you get a bit like oh, I am a brand, bloody, blue, blue, but you have to forget all that and go back to what is your basic crunch point product, you know. So it’s great if people are looking for the brand, but what are they looking for if they don’t know about you?
Cara:
So, for example, my products have always been number one. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever lost number one position for more than a few days, and that’s usually to a rain cover in my category in 15 years. And you know, in that category people are looking for a pram sunshade. Now, I actually invented the product primarily to help my daughter sleep, and most people, many people, buy it for sleep as well. But it’s interesting, there isn’t a sleep shade category on Amazon. So, you have to go where the money is basically and, if I’m honest, honest, like Amazon pretty much just told me that’s where your category your product is going to be, um, and I think it was also just sort of taking out some of the rubbish that was probably in the titles. I mean, what I actually ended up having to do was, uh, first of all I had to take a quite a big uh pill to swallow, was I basically had to not sell to anyone who could then sell on Amazon. So I had to take about six months out where I had to wait for them to sell all the stock because obviously you know, the resellers were on there, they bought stock previously and it was also a slow time of year. So it was because I’m very seasonal, as you can imagine. A lot of people are very Q4, Q1, I’m very Q2, q3.
Cara:
And so I had to sit and wait and that hurt financially while I sold out. And then I had, for example, some reseller had put a blue blanket as a listing, that as a listing image, and I was like, okay, so I had to get all that sorted out. So, I did temporarily go back to the dark side of vendor central in order to get a lot of these things sorted out. And then, once I was all sorted, there were a couple of other reasons why I also left, which was primarily due to Amazon matching prices, which some of the other retailers were doing which was just crazy stuff. I then moved everything over to Seller Central. So, I’d started on Seller Central around 2014, 2015. So, I started in the UK, kind of started to learn a little bit how it all worked. Then I launched in the US, then I launched in Canada and then I launched on Australia as well.
Kevin King:
How big a team? Is this just you, or do you have people working for you?
Cara:
So I do have people working for me, but I don’t actually, I say, employ anyone as such, because the business is so seasonal it’s difficult to give people things to do kind of all year round. But I have got a team of freelancers, some of whom have been working with me on and off for like nine years, five years, three or four years, and they do like maybe 20 hours a week or something like that, which works really well because I have a combination of people who then it means that although I’ve got a smallish team, I’ve got a variety in that team and actually at the moment, for example, I did have a VA in the Philippines but I’ve just got, I’ve sadly had to part ways and I will probably be getting another one who’s a little bit more skilled in other areas but sort of more like the admin type thing, but I do. I mean, one of my biggest costs is actually probably people in my business, because I like working with people I like, and I think you know, you know my ethos is not all about making every cent like, it’s not about cutting margins and not enjoying life, it’s about I want to run a business, I want to enjoy what I’m doing. I want to grow the business.
Cara:
So, one of the things I often say is quite funny when I deal with a lot of Amazon sellers they’re all about the data, the numbers. They’re crunching everything all the time and I’m more about the emotions, the feelings. I sort of am more intuitive and when I get up in the morning, I don’t think how can I sell more SnoozeShades? I think how can I help more parents? Because I know the benefits my products give to parents and I want more parents to know that freedom that they can get. And they don’t know about the product. And that’s the most frustrating point for me is that why don’t these people know it exists? Because I get people telling me off. They’re like, well, I wish I’d known about this my first one, or I’ve only just found out about you. And I’m like, well, you know, we try. We’re only a small company. Me, I also got a range of really good agencies as well. So I have an Amazon PPC agency. I have a Facebook ads agency somebody looks after the search engine optimization and Google ads PR as well. So, I outsource as much as I can because for me it’s about quality of life. I don’t want to be doing all of that? I obviously am, must I tell. It is me really pretty much at the top, and then everyone feeds into me. But I quite enjoy that because I like being involved. So that’s just the way I am.
Kevin King:
How many hours would you say you’re actually working a week now on average? I mean, I know it’s going to be seasonal and come and go, but is this five, 10 hours a week where you’re just kind of overseeing all the agencies and checking the reports and getting guidance, or are you having to get down into the weeds a little bit still.
Cara:
Yeah, no, it depends really. So I mean the problem also is they do say, when you enjoy your work, it doesn’t feel like work.
Kevin King:
That’s true.
Cara:
So, you know, and the other thing is I am able to put it down when I want to. That’s the key thing. So, when I was working in a corporate background, you know you’ve got to do the nine to five slog or longer, and you know you never really, you’ll have 4 weeks holiday and that’s it. But what I tend to do is that I interact a lot with my customers, for example. So, if someone messages in on Instagram or Facebook or anywhere really, and I’m and one of the team isn’t on duty, I’ll usually answer it. But I don’t really consider that work, if you know what I mean. That’s just helping someone out. In terms of actual work, I mean I say I’m quite lazy. I’m not really lazy, it’s just more that I’m not very organized. I’m not one of these people who sort of goes and sits at the desk and what have you. So, I have moments. So, for example, if I’ve got to do a tax return or I’ve got to just sort out the accounting, etc. Then I will probably I can spend two days sitting in my chair from like 6am until midnight everyday and I do it, and then I’m like I’m not going to do that for a while. Then other times I will be a little bit more structured and I might do like a couple of days, two or three days of sort of working, probably like nine till kind of three, four o’clock, something like that, and then other days I’ll get a bee in my bonnet. I’m like at the moment I want to. I’m developing some new products, so when I’m on one of those days I might work again. Do it really on shift. But the great thing is you know if I want to go to a conference? I go to a conference. If I want to go on holiday, I go on holiday, you know if I want to take a day off.
Kevin King:
That is freedom.
Cara:
That, ultimately, is-
Kevin King:
It is freedom, and you can set your own schedule where, if you got some work to do, you can do it. You can like. Okay, I’m just going to buckle down through 6am to midnight for a couple of days, knock it out, and then I’ll go do whatever I want and go play. Yeah that’s-
Cara:
That’s the advantage of this sort of type of business really. You can do that.
Kevin King:
How many SKUs are you managing right now on the line?
Cara:
We’ve got 13.
Kevin King:
13. Are they just color variations or size variations? Are they actually different things?
Cara:
I’d say there’s really probably well two main differences One’s for strollers and one’s for kind of cots and pack and plays really, and then there’s different variations and different sizes and different you know. Yeah, but that’s it really.
Kevin King:
So, this just for the people listening that aren’t sitting in front of a computer where they can look it up. So, the product is basically it goes onto a stroller you call it prams in the UK, that and it blocks out. It’s almost like a. You said it’s like a sunshade, so it’s like a curtain or something that kind of attaches to it and goes around, or can you describe it? What it is?
Cara:
American, because obviously I know American from selling in the US you see. Being English, I can translate. So, I’ve got one for the stroller bassinet, which is what we call in the UK a pram or a carry cot, which is flat line where the baby is flat, and there’s one that goes kind of over the top like a canopy and what that does is it blocks all the sun. So babies under six months should never be exposed to direct sunlight, so it stops that and it also helps them sleep and they can always be used all year round, so to help with sleep, et cetera. Then there’s a version for strollers where the child is sitting up looking out, so they’re able to see out but also then help to sleep as and when they need to. So I mean, I used it with my daughter until she was five just for like really hardcore big trips and things where she would get too tired to want to move. Then there’s one for double strollers.
Kevin King:
It blacks or it just knocks out the sun?
Cara:
94% of light, which is the safest level of light you can block out, because obviously you’ve got to have the air permeability of the fabric.
Kevin King:
And so it’s an accessory that attaches to any size stroller, or does it have to be sized for different strollers?
Cara:
No, as I said, if it’s a single stroller, I’ve got a single stroller version. If it’s a side-by-side double, I’ve got a side-by-side double version. So just universal size for the different types, and then there’s one for the pack and play as well, which goes over the pack and play.
Kevin King:
And why wouldn’t the stroller manufacturers just make this part of their stroller?
Cara:
Well, do you know what? It’s a really good question and I’ve seen it happen over the last 15 years and some of them have tried, but they just never make it as well as I do. Because the thing is, what manufacturers often do is they look at their margins a lot tighter and I’ve actually got a little bit more flexibility, I think, in my margins. Plus also, you know this is my one thing, if you know what I mean, and we do it really well, and one of the things I’ve really hammered home is the safety of my products. So basically what I do is all my products are safety tested to the normal levels, then they’re safety tested above and you know, and that gives parents a confidence. Plus, also, remember, a stroller manufacturer will make one that fits their buggy. They’re not necessarily going to make one that fits another one. So the good thing is with mine is you can use it on. You know, parents often have four or five different strollers, so you can buy one product that works for all of them, whereas with a manufacturer’s one it will fit that one manufacturer. It won’t necessarily move easily to the next or the next or the next.
Kevin King:
Have you ever thought about licensing it to the stroller manufacturers or partnering with them in some way?
Cara:
Yeah, I think I did years ago, but to be honest I kind of feel like it would lose a bit of value in it, so I don’t really like the idea of it.
Kevin King:
What’s the retail price on this?
Cara:
Oh, I mean it varies between. In the UK, it’s about 20 pounds, which is what? $24 or something to up to maybe $65. So not hugely expensive.
Kevin King:
So, the $65, what makes that? Is it a different material?
Cara:
That’s the one that’s for the pack and plays, so that’s much bigger.
Kevin King:
Okay, so what do you do? You said earlier you’re not really an Amazon seller, you’re a brand. So what is the definition of that? When people are listening, a lot of people think, well, yeah, they’re listening and go well, I’m a brand, I’m on Amazon, I got a brand name and I got a logo and I got some stuff on my packaging. So, I’m a brand too, but they’re really not. So what is the true difference between a real brand and someone selling under a name or with a logo on Amazon?
Cara:
Okay, so a logo is not a brand. A trademark is not a brand. A brand is a personality, basically, and I think what you’ll find is that a lot of Amazon sellers there’s no why in why they’re selling, if you know what I mean. You need to have a story, so there needs to be a reason for your customer to emotionally engage with you. So that’s the difference. A brand is something that a customer can emotionally engage with. So, for example, you know, buying a car, for example, is often not anything other than a brand decision, because it’s usually like oh, my dad used to drive Fords, my uncle used to drive, has just bought a Tesla. You know, my dad hated BMWs, whatever it might be, and you’ve had these experiences, which are emotional experiences. They’re not logical. It’s not like you don’t know why your dad hates BMWs. You don’t know why, you know, but it’s just like you’ve got these sort of emotional connections with products and so when you’re looking for a car, you’re like probably got that in the back of your head. You know, my dad never really liked BMWs. Now, if you hate your dad, you might go and buy a BMW just to spite him.
Cara:
So you know that’s not a logical purchase, if you know. What I mean and so that’s the thing with a real brand is that there’s something there which has some form of an emotional connection where the customer feels like that they’re actually engaging with the brand. It’s not about the products, it’s about the brand, because, you know, a brand can sell multiple different types of products, but by building up trust, by building up kind of a personality, the customer can then basically emotionally engage. So, there are a lot of sellers on Amazon who use Gmail addresses, right? No, you need a domain, you need to have a website, you need to have something that shows that you don’t just exist on Amazon. If you don’t have anything that exists off Amazon, you are not a brand, you’re just an Amazon seller. And even if you do have a website, it should be more than like a website that just basically has your basic information. You know, there should always be as a general rule, if you want to kind of grow as a brand, you really need to have a story, as I said before.
Cara:
So, you know, I do know there’s a lot of sellers out there who would probably just say, well, I’m there to make money. Well, okay, that’s not really a story, anyone’s going to give a flying hoo-ha about, right, but a lot of people, it could be that they wanted to give up their day job because they wanted to do this or travel or whatever it might be. It might be that you know that they got frustrated with you know, like me I’ve got a story because I invented something. But it can also be you know for example, you know they wanted to raise money for a really good cause, I mean like Tom’s Shoes, for example. You know they donate like shoes for every shoe that’s bought and things like that. You know. So they started up with something where there’s an emotional thing going on there and I mean I think you know, as you know, for those things, like you can use humor, make things funny, you know, but just, it’s just. Otherwise there’s no voice and there’s no personality. How do you have a brand story if there is nothing there to really talk about? Because actually a lot of Amazon sellers’ brand stories is just a showcase of their products. That’s it.
Kevin King:
How are you doing that specifically on Amazon, having this personality and telling the story? Are you doing that in your A-plus content? Or do you have interesting graphics and smiley faces and happy moms? What are you doing to actually convey that message when they don’t have the ability to talk to you or to meet you or to see the product?
Cara:
I think it’s really important to have a tone of voice, like, to have some kind of tone of voice. So, mine is always very friendly, very warm, slightly humorous, but not too humorous, because I’m dealing with safety, so I have to be a bit careful. The other day it was quite funny. I was on Instagram somewhere and someone was going about how important it was to have an authentic voice when you’re talking with your brand and I said, yeah, but the problem is I swear I’ve got potty mouth and I’ve got a really wicked sense of humor and actually I can be really inappropriate sometimes. So, I actually have to play that down when I’m in work mode because of the fact that I respect the fact that my audience is parents who are interested in safety. But I definitely always we always have a tone of voice friendly, you know, instructional, like we try to hold the hand of the parent as they’re going through. We try and guide them like this is the product you need. Reassuring, you know, like giving them all the information they could possibly need in order to make the purchase decision, reassuring them with, like trust. So I mean my business so far has probably won about 80 awards, so we show the awards. We show social media proof of the fact that people are out there loving the product, using it, you know, so that they can identify and go. Oh yeah, you know, that could be me highlighting the things that we know they care about. So they care about safety, they care about how much UVs block, making sure those things are there, and that’s one way of sort of conveying more of a personality. But I think one of the ways we do it a lot and this is the other thing is that you know, probably I get most of my traffic not on Amazon, like, yes, the traffic’s on Amazon, but when they’re on Amazon they’re usually looking for my brand, so they’ve already heard about us.
Cara:
So I think a lot of it comes from social media. So on social media it’s very like, you know, getting out there working with influencers, getting them to share the product benefits, etc. So they start building up. Then they come to our social media. They sort of see, you know who I am. There’s videos of me talking. There’s videos of the product being used in different ways. There’s lots of testimonials. We get a lot of celebrities. We just had a lady today. I don’t actually know who she is, but she’s got 3 million followers on Instagram and she’s using her SnoozeShade when she’s out with her little boy. I actually had no clue who she was, and you know. But we get that a lot. You know, we get people, we’ve had royalty use my products.
Cara:
So I think the thing is it’s sort of working around. So when I look at things to spend my money on, I’m probably the stingiest on my Amazon PPC and I’m probably more likely to be a bit more rash on spending something to do with marketing, like maybe sponsoring a podcast for a particular baby sleep consultant or, you know, doing an event or something along those lines, or investing in product to give to influencers and time and the time of my team to support those influencers, because that’s the other thing I mean we regularly get. I mean, in fact, actually, funnily enough, I’ve literally one of my team left this on the desk where someone is sending her product back and I think she left it for me to read and it said I must say I’m gutted, it’s not for us. The quality and customer service you provide is one of the best I’ve experienced for a long time and is a credit to you. Especially enjoy the cat gifts. Now, that’s also because I put gifts in my news, in my. When someone orders off my website, they get a chain of emails and the first one, for example, is thank you for your order, and I’ve got the girls from friends jumping up and down like I’m really excited, whatever. Then. The second one is about have you read your instructions? And I couldn’t find any interesting um gifts for that, so I found one of a cat reading a book. Um, you know like instead, um, and then you know so. So the thing is it’s just putting in some personality, um, and some thought to the fact that-
Kevin King:
That’s branding for sure.
Cara:
Yeah.
Kevin King:
And it’s reconfirming that they made the right decision.
Cara:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
As well, and making them feel but how do you, how do you? That’s harder to do when you have a product that’s a one-time buy, because I’m assuming most people are buying they have a baby one time and you said it could be used between different uh different trams or uh, dollies, or whatever the heck you call them over there that they can be used between different ones. Maybe that you know they need to buy a second one for some reason because they’re pushing two different ones, but most of this is one time purchases, one and done right. So, are you doing anything to like keep these, build a community of moms or keep these people around, so that maybe you can? I know you said the goal is not to sell something, it’s to take care of a problem, but maybe you can help them fix other problems that results in another product down the road.
Cara:
Well, yeah, but I mean the thing is, you say that, but the business keeps growing every year 10%, 10%, 10%.
Kevin King:
Those babies keep happening, except in Japan and a few places where the population is going the other way.
Cara:
Well, even everywhere the population is declining, to be fair. I probably there’s probably a few places in the world that but they probably don’t use so many buggies or strollers. Um, but no, I think what it is. I mean there are various products when we try it. There is a product for when they’re baby, baby, then one when they move to the stroller, and there’s one for the pack and play and you might have two children, so you get this side by side but if I’m honest-
Kevin King:
There’s a pack and play. I’m sorry, I’m not a parent. What’s a pack and play?
Cara:
American word for a travel cart is what we call it or okay, okay water cart. You’re too cosmopolitan, you see.
Kevin King:
I am, I am.
Cara:
But you speak English too well. Well, um so, um. So, yeah, we don’t get multiple buys, but actually funny enough, I mean, this is what I mean about being a bit lazy is that I’ve known for years that there are other products that I could sell to customers that would work, because of the fact that they’re all in the same kind of genre. But they’re not going to be inventions, but what I’m going to do is brand them as like SnoozeShade essentials basically. So they’re the sort of product that I know my parents will buy, because if they’re going to buy them, they might as well buy them from me rather than from someone else. So that is something that’s in the in the pipeline. I have also got a product as well that I’m looking at doing for children with special needs as well, which has been asked for quite a lot. So I’m busy cutting up prototypes and things for that at the moment. And you know, but I mean, as I say, the thing is that you know, whilst I get exactly what you’re saying, but the thing is is that it is only really a one hit wonder. But the great thing, I think, is also when a parent has one, they then love it so much that they want to give it to their friends. So I mean, I had a lady, for example, who messaged me because she wanted to buy four of them as baby shower gifts for her friends and I was like, oh yeah, sure. And she said, oh, can you give me a discount? I was like, oh yeah, no, worries, like, and I gave her quite a big discount. She bought quite a few before, so I think I gave her like 20 or 25 off, which is a really significant discount.
Cara:
Anyway, it turns out, I mean, you may not know who he is, but one of the the gifties was Ollie Muirs, who’s a quite a well-known singer. Um and um, she ended up giving and he’s been using his new shade, he’s had it in his um, you know, posted in his social media and whatever. And I was like, if you’d have told me, I’d have given it to you for free. You know, yeah, that’s the thing, and people like giving it as a gift as well, which is which is great. But yeah, I mean you’re right, you know, I mean I sometimes I look at people who are selling like supplements and I’m like, wow, that would just be amazing, because once you’ve built your brand, you know, really, people have to keep taking the thing you know and, like you know, you’re constantly ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, um, like I said, I think you know it’s, it’s um, I’m quite happy, kind of how I am really, which is I quite. Also like the seasonality because it is, I say, crazy busy. It’s actually less crazy busy now. It would be we’re selling more, but it’s less crazy busy, I think, because over the years we’ve had a lot of like questions about safety and health and all the rest of it, and we’ve sort of knocked a lot of those on the head now. So there’s this assumption that it’s fine and we get a lot less of the sort of it’s going to kill my baby kind of comments on social media that we used to get, um, so it’s actually a lot quieter in some ways. And then there’s other things to do, like investigating other retail options. I’m looking at maybe doing something with a Facebook group, like you say, building a bit more of a community around things that I know my parents would be interested in. But I suppose I’m just like you know what, there’s no mad rush, so it’s all pootling along quite nicely as it is.
Cara:
I mean, as you know, I’ve been copied by Aldi, I’ve been copied by the Chinese left, right and center. Like you know, they’re always copying my products. I mean, I shut America down last year because I basically just got copied so much by the best selling product, which is the one for the travel cop or pack and play, and the Chinese just basically were copying and selling like a $20 product they were buying and you can see they’re buying them off Alibaba for, like you know, four pounds, five pounds. It wasn’t the same product as mine, obviously, but it was a interpretation of it and I can’t beat. My product cost me about $27 or so to make, so I’m not going to be selling it at like um $20 because I’d be making a loss, that’d be stupid. So I just cleared the decks and then I’ve had a revisit, looked at like manufacturing costs, et cetera, et cetera. Mine will still be one of the more expensive models, but you know the business didn’t suffer because I came out of the US. That’s the interesting thing. I mean I shut Canada and the US down at the same time and I’m still turning over more than I did before.
Kevin King:
Do you not have IP on this?
Cara:
So you can’t really. I didn’t get patent when I started and so I haven’t. Really, I have actually got a couple of things for newer products, but nothing like for when I for the product. When I very first started, I didn’t really know what I was doing in the same way, so I didn’t protect it, to be honest, and I should have done. But having said that, it still doesn’t matter because people still choose the brand. I mean, I get it all the time. People are like, oh, I looked at the other options but in the end I’ve just gone for yours because I want the safety. You know, when you’re talking about baby products particularly, you know safety is critical.
Kevin King:
You want those 80 awards.
Cara:
Well, they want the 80 awards. They want the reassurance. They, you know, and also they can see me, you know, they can see the person who invented it. You know there’s a few videos on Instagram and TikTok and all the rest of it. So I’m very I’m not, I’m not massively visible, so, funnily enough, I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily say that somebody else couldn’t take the brand over at some point and run it, because you’ve still got that story. So there’s, for example, I think Ezra Firestone did it with um, the Boom um brand, where it was owned by I can’t remember her name Cindy, and she passed away and he’s taken it on and grown it, you know, know, still. So I don’t think you could remove SnoozeShade because the thing is also then it’s got heritage and history behind it. So it doesn’t matter that it was started by Cara, you know, 15 years ago, because it was started by me 15 years ago. Now somebody new might take over. Not that I’m planning on exiting, by the way, at any point in the near future. But you know, the good thing is, I think it’s, it’s interlinked with me, but not so much like some brands are, where they’re so inter like links with their founder that if the founder leaves, the whole business collapses.
Kevin King:
Why would you? You said you’re not considering exiting. Why would you? Why would that not be an option on the table?
Cara:
Because, to be honest, I don’t need to which is that sort of financially I’m absolutely fine as I am, I don’t need a big payout. I’d be bored within four nanoseconds. Like what would I do? And I’ve seen a lot of my friends sell out seven, eight figures, nine figure exits and then they’re like, well, what do I do now? And then they try and get back into the Amazon game or build another brand and it’s a lot harder. So I would rather carry on doing what I’m doing, which is kind of still growing mine, and enjoying what I’m doing. And you know, keep going. I mean I’m only what 53. You know, I can see myself doing this for at least another five years at least, and even then what I might do is I might then get someone else to take it over and I’ll just be lurking around in the background slightly dodgily while they, you know, while they benefit from it, etc. Because the thing is again, I’ve seen it many times I mean Ben Leonard, for example. He sold his brand and he’s, I think, trying or has either bought it back or I think he did buy it back in the end.
Kevin King:
Yeah, he bought it back. Yeah, he’s going to try to do a little case study on how to resurrect a brand or something.
Cara:
Exactly because they trashed it right. And that’s the thing no one cares about your business, the way you do, and, if I’m really honest, at the moment, I enjoy it. It allows me to go to conferences, it allows me to go and hang out in really nice places and meet people talking about interesting things, doing interesting things. I mean, look, you know, look at the amazing day that you put on in Iceland for us, which was just incredible, you know, whale watching, super jeeping, you know. I mean, it was just incredible. Like how am I going to do that if I’m, if I haven’t got a business behind me doing it? So, you know, the thing is also like I said, I enjoy what I do and I think you know if you’re doing it and you don’t enjoy it, then exit right. And the other thing is is that nowadays the retirement age is getting later and later and later and you need more more money to live on in retirement. Well I’m not in a corporate job, and that frankly is like a dream for me cause I have the freedom. I hate, I’ve always hated, I was always a round peg in a square hole and I always hated that whole. I hate 9-5. I hate that whole ethos. I hate, like you know, there are so many things that just wrong. You know, not being able to disagree with someone if you think they’re wrong because they’re higher up in the business than you are and all the rest of it. And I earn more money than a lot of my friends do working a corporate job, but I get to do what the hell I like when I like.
Kevin King:
That’s the way to be it. That’s exactly the way to do it. That’s what attracts a lot of people to this.
Cara:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
They don’t realize it can be a lot of work, and we got in at a time I mean starting a brand, or before all these marketplaces, whether it’s Amazon or Shopify or whatever at the very beginning which it was easier then than it is for a lot of people now and, like you just said, people that exit. I know a lot of them too that have taken some money off the table and now they’re bored.
Cara:
Yeah, exactly.
Kevin King:
Or they try to do it again, and most of them fail.
Cara:
Yeah.
Kevin King:
Or have or struggle because, well, it’s two reasons. One’s much more difficult now and they’re not used to putting in that kind of work, and also, some of them are right place, right time and they actually don’t know what they’re doing. Um, and they just got lucky, uh, and we were built something up and had a moat around them with reviews and stuff. So there’s a couple of different reasons there. But, yeah, I see it a lot too. And, um, if you’re enjoying it and it’s it’s paying your bills, there’s no reason to sell. The only thing is if the market crashes or something happens and then you don’t want to ever look back and go. Man, I could have gotten $4 million. Now this thing’s worth a hundred thousand. That’s the downside to it. But in your space I don’t think that’s likely to happen. I mean-
Cara:
First of all, I think that’s unlikely to happen, but second of all, you’ve also got to look at the cumulative amount of money you can take out of a business. So, I’ve been going for 15 years, so you know, $4 million probably is not that far off in terms of what I’ve been able to take out and then also very tax efficiently as well. So rather than getting a great big lump sum which then gets taxed completely, you know I’m actually taking out quite large sums, not necessarily.
Kevin King:
You get to write off all these trips to Cancun and Iceland, and everywhere too, as a business expense.
Cara:
Correct, and then also, you’ve got. Well, they are a business expense. In absolute honesty they’re a genuine business expense. Things like my pension, which I think in America is. Is that a 401 or a 301?
Kevin King:
Yeah, like 401 usually. Yeah, there are pensions too, but that’s not as common anymore as like a 401k.
Cara:
So I’m chucking in the maximum amount you can put into your pension every year, and I have been doing that for the last eight years, you know, and I wouldn’t have been able to do that if I was in a corporate job. That’s tax again. That’s tax efficient because it’s coming out pre-corporation tax, you know, pre-profit. So all of these things you know that you can do, you know, can all sort of make life a lot easier. And, as I say, I think the other thing is genuinely. I mean I enjoy what I do and when I get, when, the day when I get out of bed and just think, oh God, I’ve had enough. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I have had days like that in the past. I have had, I mean, one of my friends. I remember in the very early days when, you know, I mean I worked like a freaking dog and probably I remember I had a baby as well. So, I had a, my daughter was about 18 months old and I was working like a dog. I mean I would get up at like six in the morning, then I’d also be working and looking after Holly, then I’d be like doing family dinner, then I’d be going like putting Holly down, then I’d be working until maybe midnight, then getting up again, and you know, that was my life. I mean, I did actually have in 2010. I did actually have a form of a breakdown because I just got so overwhelmed and I basically fell apart.
Cara:
So personal health is very important to me and that’s one of the reasons why, you know, I look at what other people do and I watch and I’m like. Do I want to do that? No, I’m right, actually I’m. I don’t need to work so crazy, because actually, like, if I’m doing okay and I haven’t brought on these new products, then I bring on some new products. I’m like, oh, wow, that’s really cool, that’s doing really well. You know, and I think that’s the thing is that I think there is there’s often a need for speed. That’s unnecessary. You know you need to maybe sometimes let things bed in a bit and before you kind of go on to the next thing and that’s another thing also I’d say about like Amazon, for example. So I shut the US down in Canada. Has my business, like, suffered on a bigger level? No, because actually I’m more profitable and I’m turning over slightly less, but I’m more profitable because the US business wasn’t as profitable whereas my UK business is, and because I’m focused on the UK, I’m growing it more, which is why it’s growing. You know we’re about I think we’re at least 10% up this year so far and I haven’t even hit really busy season and that’s not through me doing anything that I can actually put my finger on and go. I made that. Therefore, I’ve increased by 10%. It’s more just that sort of general awareness, keeping going, keeping the communication out there.
Kevin King:
Are you doing Germany as well, or just the UK?
Cara:
No, just the UK.
Kevin King:
Just the UK.
Cara:
Yeah.
Kevin King:
And all your distribution, your wholesale. It’s all UK. Or is some of that outside the UK too?
Cara:
Well, I mean, I’ve got a distributor in New Zealand, but they do a fair amount and not not huge amounts. And then, other than that, I’ve got a couple of smallish retailers in the UK who I work with because I like them, and that’s really it. And then the only other plans I’ve got to expand are going into Ireland, because I’ve always done really well in Ireland and now we’ve got an actual fulfillment center over in Ireland. So I’m probably going to start looking at that fairly soon. And but yeah, Germany, et cetera. You know the problem with the EU and, by the way, the UK and the EU are very separate. Thank you very much. I’m not saying America and Canada. You know we are different countries, very much so, but no, I mean, trading in the EU is a challenge. I mean, unfortunately, it’s a bit like. Well, I mean, in the States you’ve got like so many states and every state’s got different rules and regulations, and that’s the same with the EU. You know every country’s got its own regulations and its own rules and its own tax and all the rest of it, and you know they’re just not so fun to play with and they can be quite sort of stick in the mud and all the rest of it. And you know it’s very like. You know you will follow the line which is not necessarily the way most entrepreneurs like, like to kind of walk. So I mean, I’m back registered, I could go live in the EU anytime, but it’s just whether or not I really want to or not. I just can’t decide really.
Kevin King:
So, on your new product ideas, do you get these from your customers by looking at emails and being actively involved in there, or are you polling them or going out to them and saying, hey, what other types of stuff would you guys love to have that we can help you with?
Cara:
That would be a really good idea, Kevin.
Kevin King:
What was that?
Cara:
I said that would be a really good idea because that would be like data-driven and all the rest of it. No, I mean, most of it is I just kind of well. Obviously, there’s things like frequently bought together, so that’s an obvious match, and there are some things that I know you know frequently bought together. They might as well buy my version of that than someone else’s and I can do bundles and all the rest of it. But then there’s other products which I just know my customers. So, I know that they’re going to like this, they’re going to like that, they’re going to like this, and so obviously then I go and do the research on Amazon and see what kind of sales volume. I also test things out on my website. So you know I’ve done it for the last few years. I introduce a few new products on the website and see which ones sell, because that can be quite a good indicator and yeah. So basically, yeah, I just sort of I mean there is some data involved. I mean my ad agency are much more data driven so they’ll be much more likely to kind of go oh yeah, this would be a good product to do and also I’m thinking about doing this. And they might say to me oh yes, that’s got good volume or whatever it might be. But to be honest, I just kind of know, like, what my customers would like. So I’m sort of fairly confident that the products I’m looking at and the other thing I’m doing it for is I’m always about is in marketing, I talk about octopus tentacles.
Cara:
So you know, making sure you reach your customer in multiple different ways. So you know, you reach them on email, you reach them on like Instagram, you reach them on TikTok, et cetera, and it’s the same for products. So if I’ve got these other products that are in other categories, that’s another octopus tentacle that goes out and exposes the brand to them and then they’ll get the product. That will tell them more about the other products and therefore they’ll hopefully come over and buy the other products.
Kevin King:
What percentage of your customers do you estimate come from referrals, from someone seeing someone walking their baby through the park and they see your product on like oh, where’d you get that? Oh, it’s. Uh, you know, I got it on Amazon or I got it on this website. And what do you? Do you have any idea of? Like? How much is that versus how much is like all your efforts for ads and SEO and everything?
Cara:
Well, yeah, no, I’d say it’s probably more than being out and about with them really and um, people seeing them. So I mean I don’t know is the answer, but I do know that when we get a lot of things oh yeah, my friend has one, or I saw this on holiday or whatever so I mean I’d say maybe 50 percent or something like that, probably. I mean so that’s the benefit of Amazon. So, you know the fact that Amazon is a place for people to find the product that they don’t necessarily know is around because it’s in the right category so they are looking for a pram sunshade. They find my product, it’s the best seller, it has the most reviews. You know, etc. etc. But and also you know it can be shown. You know for different things. And then you know the website and everything else is for the people who kind of you know they’re looking for something. And you know, I mean obviously I mean look we all know your Google is going to go downhill fairly soon. I mean it’s going to. Probably the standard SEO strategy of the last 15 years is going to completely pivot with AI. But for example, you see, a lot of the work is really interesting. I had two new team members here today and I just said to them look, just put into chatGPT. I said have you mentioned SnoozeShade to them before? And they said no, and I said okay, just put in what it. My friend just had a baby. What’s the best pram sunshade that she should buy? Guess what it recommended.
Kevin King:
You.
Cara:
Correct, because the thing is, even though Google I say I think it’s really interesting, so I know my SEO guys really like, oh my God. Like you know, search engine optimization, as we know it is changing and it’s a whole, but actually it still goes back to the fundamentals. The more you put out there and this is why being on Amazon only is so dangerous the more you put out off Amazon.
Kevin King:
The more credibility you have in the AI. Yeah, the LLMs like that. They like those press releases, they like those mentions on other websites for someone, or the picture of the royalty that’s on their website or whatever it may be. All that stuff factors in to it.
Cara:
Why it needs to be the part of a strategy, for any seller needs to start thinking more like a brand which is actually putting content out there. Online reviews off Amazon. Reviews are not all about Amazon. Reviews should be like look for review websites, look for bloggers, look for influencers, look for you know they have quite a lot of these sort of magazines like websites where they’re pulling together reviews of different products. You know. Go out there and be a bit more proactive. Get out and actually put your product into the real world, not just Amazon. Take it away from Amazon and start thinking about it as a product that exists outside.
Kevin King:
Yeah, like Google My Business and Google Knowledge Graph are two things that can help you quite a bit, too, that a lot of people don’t do. What do you see as changing the most in Amazon since you started selling on Amazon in 2015 or whatever it was? What have you seen evolve for and what do the people listening to this that are selling on Amazon whether they’re starting or maybe they’re going right now what do they need to be paying attention to and what are some of the changes that you see coming up on the horizon, or are there any?
Cara:
I don’t know. I mean, I think Amazon is. I think when, obviously, when I started, it was 10 years ago and Amazon was still in kind of, I say, startup mode really, you know, in terms of pushing FBA forward and all of those sorts of things that’s all now established and what we’ve seen over the last few years is the increase of costs, because Amazon is going to keep trying to throw more and more costs at sellers, not less. And so you know, the people who are operating on incredibly small margins are going to struggle, because you know Amazon is going to want to take more and more money from you one way or the other, whether it’s to pay for storage, for, you know, fulfillment, moving it around different centers, whether it’s advertising. I mean, now they’ve just changed the deals option. Where that used to be like a cost-effective thing, I think, now is it like is that $800 or something?
Kevin King:
Yeah, something like that yeah.
Cara:
So, I think you’re going to see more and more of that and this is why it’s equally important you get off Amazon, because you know you shouldn’t have all your eggs in one basket. You should be operating a business that doesn’t just operate in one area, because you know it’s going to be interesting, because obviously TikTok is coming after Amazon. You know, with like hardcore. Whether or not, and you see, the thing is also, shoppers are going to change. You know, like what we also have to remember is your Amazon customers. Probably, possibly they might be the slightly older customer, right, and your TikTok are the younger generation and the more they get used to shopping on TikTok, that’s going to overtake, because it’s a bit like, for example, social media. I use Facebook still. My daughter, I think she’s got a Facebook account, but only because I asked her to open one because of some reason or other. She’s on TikTok, she’s on Instagram those are her two primary and Snapchat. Those are her three things.
Cara:
Now she’s the person of the future. I mean she’s aware of Amazon because obviously I end up when she buys books and Kindles and all these things and videos and stuff she’s buying on mommy’s account. So, she knows how to get onto Amazon in that way, but whether or not she’s going to really be the person who goes to Amazon to buy, or whether she’s going to, like people are going to start literally putting their full catalogs onto TikTok or another platform. Let’s not forget. You know we’re a constantly moving environment now and with AI, things are going to speed up even faster. I mean with ChatGPT, you know, moving into retail as well, or into e-commerce. That’s going to be a real game changer. You know, and you know it could even be that. You know, you just end up maybe in the end, it’s going to be a case of just going on to ChatGPT and saying, oh, I want to buy this, and it goes off and finds you the best prices and tells you right, these are your options, and then would you like me to buy it for you? I’ll put it through my ChatGPT account.
Kevin King:
I think that’s going to be a bigger and bigger thing. It’s interesting times that we’re living in. I think there’s a lot of big changes coming up, but at the end of the day, though, if you’re a true brand, like you are, you’ve got a big advantage, and I think that’s the biggest lesson is become a brand, not a seller of products, and no matter what happens whether it’s SEO changes or ChatGPT buying or different social media platform if you’re a brand and known as that brand, that’s the big shield that you have around you. That’s going to help you sustain and grow.
Cara:
All the people who do the big exits. What is the common theme?
Kevin King:
Yeah, branding.
Cara:
Right, all brands. No one goes and buys a brand called XYZJKL because it’s selling a very successful garlic crusher.
Kevin King:
Well, they did. The name of the company was Thrasio, and now they’re no longer around.
Cara:
You cheap monkey, but I think it is. There’s a definite power in having a brand. There’s a power in not just selling products and actually, if I’m honest, you know what everyone should be doing. If you’re like, go and get onto bloody ChatGPT and say to it this is my product, how do I make a brand from this? ChatGPT will help you know I mean, at the moment I use ChatGPT for everything. I mean, if it could brush my teeth, I would help. I would get it to help. You know, help, that’s coming.
Kevin King:
That’s, that’s coming. It’s gonna be the little robotic arm that’s uh.
Cara:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
Bluetooth enabled, and uh, you’re just gonna upload a picture of your mouth and uh.
Cara:
Brush harder here, you know. But all honesty. But but the other thing I would say, and this is similar to the Amazon seller type scenario, you’re selling a crappy product on Amazon, you’re never going to do very well right? Because it’s all about the quality of the product. At the end of the day. Even if you’ve got a great brand but you’re delivering rubbish products, that’s not going to help anyone because eventually-
Kevin King:
That’s not a great brand. A brand is the quality of the product too. You could iPhone or something like that. It’s the messaging, it’s the packaging, it’s the avatar, it’s the personality, but it’s also the quality of the product is important. That’s an area where a lot of people don’t pay as much attention as they should.
Cara:
And then the thing with ChatGPT is the same thing, which is if you put in a rubbish prompt, you’re going to get rubbish out. So you actually need to really start understanding what it is you’re researching. So if you don’t understand marketing, then get ChatGPT to give you a course on marketing. Tell it to teach you the 101 basics of marketing. Tell it to teach you the 101 basics. There was a website which I think is probably redundant now because ChatGPT would do it now, but that sort of talked to me like I’m a five-year-old, but it’s that similar sort of ethos, which is you need to understand marketing. I mean, it was funny. I was at a conference not so long ago and somebody came in after me and when he spoke to me he said oh, you’re a marketing agency. I said no, I’ve got my own brand. He was like oh wow, because you know, from the way I talk, I’m taught marketing is. In fact, I literally said this today to my two new team members. I said I’ve seen this through history right.
Cara:
So I remember like in the 1980s, when there was in the 1990s, sorry when there was a big crash, the first thing companies do is cut their marketing departments right. It’s the first thing they’ve always done. They keep sales and they lose marketing. The problem is, how do you sell if no one knows about your product? And marketing is the how they know about your product, so you know. That’s why it’s really important, because something will sell if they know about it. You almost don’t necessarily need the sales team if you’re marketing enough. So one of the things I do is it doesn’t matter. Like when COVID hit, I didn’t just go like, oh my God, I’m gonna panic and not do anything. I was like, right, let’s ramp this up, let’s get out there doing more. And actually I had a really good year that year.
Kevin King:
Well, Clara, this has been great. I really appreciate you taking some chat with me today here on the AM/PM podcast.
Cara:
It’s always a pleasure and never a chore.
Kevin King:
Never. This has been fun. I always enjoy speaking with you, whether it’s at BDSS or at one of the other events, and you know we just have to put on the thumbnail. What’s your little thing that you’re always known for in the group? Was it the toe pictures or something? Yeah, the toes in the sand pictures, or whatever it is.
Cara:
And we’ll also do the Amazon industry toe shots. I’ve had men posting toe shots with boots on without boots, et cetera. I’m doing a toe shot.
Kevin King:
That’s great. It’s great. That’s the Cara brand right there.
Cara:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
Well, if people want to learn about your brand or reach out to you or connect with you or something, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Cara:
Well, it’s very easy because I am actually the only Cara Sayer in the world which makes it easy for everyone. So, like LinkedIn, Facebook, it depends. If I haven’t met you, I probably won’t accept, unfortunately because it’s more private, although I know I’ve got a lot of people on there. My brand is SnoozeShade, which is very easily accessible everywhere, on every kind of social media channel, et cetera. So yeah, just however you like, really.
Kevin King:
Awesome. Well, thanks, Cara. I’m sure I’ll see you at another BDS event or some other event here in the near future.
Cara:
Oh, absolutely, you know I won’t stay away.
Kevin King:
So if you’re not a subscriber to the Billion Dollar Seller newsletter, billiondollarsellers.com, you’re missing out on what’s happening, how the Amazon industry is changing, how to actually do some of this kind of branding that Cara and I talked about on Amazon and on other platforms as well, some of the new ways to optimize everything. We cover all this every Monday and Thursday in the totally free Billion Dollar Sellers newsletter. So if you’re not a subscriber, be sure to go to BillionDollarSellers.com and sign up today. We’ll be back again next week with another awesome episode of the AM/PM Podcast. Every single Thursday, brand new episodes coming out, so don’t miss them.
Kevin King:
If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the channel. Hit don’t miss them. If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the channel. Hit that like button. Share this episode with somebody if you thought it was interesting and they could benefit from it. We always appreciate that as well. Or you can even leave a comment down in the comments and say how much you like it or how much you hate it, or the sound of my voice just is like fingernails on a chalkboard, or whatever you want to say. You can throw that down in the comments as well. Have a great week and we’ll see you again next time.
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