#392 – Power Couple’s Blueprint to Amazon Success: From Book Flipping to Pet Brand Dominance
Imagine transforming a simple book-flipping hustle into an empire within the ever-competitive Amazon marketplace. That’s the extraordinary leap Amanda and John Balcazar, our distinguished guests, made—crafting a successful brand in the pet industry through the finesse of Amazon FBA. Their tale is one of grit, strategy, and the unique bond of navigating business waters as life partners. Journey with us as we unveil the insights that propelled them from flipping pages to dominating pet product sales, all while strengthening their relationship amidst the demanding e-commerce tides.
John’s military precision, honed from his Marine Corps days, meets Amanda’s entrepreneurial savvy to form a duo whose strategies are as disciplined as they are innovative. They regale us with stories from the adrenaline-laced early days of garage sale treasure hunts to the calculated arena of private labeling. Discover how their devotion to constant evolution and their keen ability to spot the shifting currents in the marketplace have anchored their brand’s position at the forefront. The Balcazars embody the agility and foresight necessary to cut through the noise of commodity-based retail, outlining the significance of customer loyalty programs, product quality, and the art of scaling a brand with integrity.
In the heart of our discussion lies the couple’s approach to nurturing both a thriving business and a flourishing relationship. They candidly share the tactics they employ to stay competitive, including adapting to new Amazon fee structures and optimizing warehouse operations. But beyond the logistics, they reflect on the harmony required to sustain a partnership wherein work and life are intertwined. Their story isn’t just about building a brand; it’s about crafting a life where success is measured not just by sales, but by the strength of their union and the happiness of their customers. Join us for a conversation that’s as much about the nuances of Amazon selling as it is about the power of partnership and shared vision.
In episode 392 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin, Amanda, and John discuss:
- 00:00 – Power Couple Discusses BDSS Experience
- 01:44 – Remembering Our First Meeting
- 05:47 – Billion Dollar Seller Summit Hawaii
- 08:05 – Impactful Insights From Event Attendance
- 09:27 – Military Background and Business Transition
- 17:33 – Reselling, Private Labeling, and Amazon Strategies
- 18:10 – Garage Sale Treasure Hunting Strategy
- 22:23 – Phasing Out Old Inventory for Profit
- 27:45 – Strategies for Selling Commodity-Based Products
- 28:29 – Product Differentiation in Competitive Markets
- 33:25 – Building a Dog Chew Brand
- 41:05 – Focus on Supply Chain Management Plans
- 45:30 – Running a Business as a Couple
- 48:39 – Business Partnership Like Marriage
- 54:30 – Kevin King’s Words Of Wisdom
Transcript
Kevin King:
Welcome to episode 392 of the AM/PM Podcast. My guest this week is another power couple, Amanda and John Balcazar. Amanda and John have been selling on Amazon since around 2006. They were doing arbitrage with books and just crushing it, doing seven figures. Then, around 2018, they decided to migrate over to the FBA model and create their own brand, and they’ve been doing that with great success in the pet space ever since. They’re also regulars at the BDSS. So we’ll be talking a little bit about the Billion Dollar Seller Summit and their experiences at that, talk about working together as a couple, talking about the transition and how they differentiate their products. A lot of great stuff in this talk with John and Amanda. I hope you enjoy it.
Intro:
Welcome to the AM/PM Podcast. Welcome to the AM PM Podcast. We explore opportunities in e-commerce. We dream big and we discover what’s working right now. Plus, this is the podcast where money never sleeps, working around the clock in the AM and the PM. Are you ready for today’s episode? I said are you ready? Let’s do this. Here’s your host Kevin King.
Kevin King:
So last week we had a couple from Australia on the AM PM Podcast that are crushing it in the RV space, now, look who we have. We have another power couple that are crushing it in Amazon space. John and Amanda, how are you doing?
Amanda:
We are fantastic. How are you, Kevin?
John:
Rocking and rolling.
Kevin King:
I’m alive and kicking, that’s all you can ask for. I stole that from Mark, actually. That was his old phrase that he used to always say. I was like no, that’s a good phrase, I’m alive and kicking. So, you guys, when did we first meet? It was like, I think, at a BDSS. No, I met you, Amanda, before BDSS. Didn’t I like a capitalism or seller college?
Amanda:
I think it was at a licensing expo. So what had happened is we had not. When we started selling, we were just doing books and stuff like forever ago. And then we decided that we’re going to do private label around, I think, it was like around 2017. And at that time we had never been to any events. We weren’t really involved with much of the community at the time and John had just started kind of getting in the mix and we were doing some Amazon merch as well. So that’s where we went to the licensing expo and I’m pretty sure cause you were there, right? That does seem like it might be right.
Kevin King:
I went to the last things at expo, the one in Vegas, right.
Amanda:
Correct. So I think that’s it.
Kevin King:
Paul Miller or something at one point.
Amanda:
Okay. So I think it was either that or it was like one of them ASD or something, but it was around that time and so I would. It’s probably about 2018 and John had messaged you. He’s like, oh my gosh, Kevin King’s there. You gotta meet him. And I’m like okay, so we went and you were kind enough. You’re like I don’t know who these people are, I don’t know who she is, but sure, let’s go have lunch. So we just had some lunch in Vegas, and that’s how it started.
Kevin King:
Oh, okay, I think I remember that now there’s a group of us, right?
Amanda:
No, actually, you and I, we food courted it up and we just had some food there at the at Mandalay.
Kevin King:
Sorry. I get so many events at the moment.
Amanda:
I know it’s hard. It’s hard. We were just recollecting that with I was doing that with Kate and I’m like, oh my gosh, they all blend together. So totally get it.
Kevin King:
And since then I got you hooked. I guess I did the right thing. I bought you the right sandwich or something, or whatever. Now, you’ve been to like you’ve been to every BDSS right.
Amanda:
I think there was one, so one year you had like two right or something, like something in person and it was. There was something that I was at the first one, I’m not sure on the second or third, but anyway, almost all of them.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I remember you came by yourself the first time and then you told your husband you’re like, John, you gotta come, you gotta, you gotta come. And now you guys haven’t, you haven’t missed a single one.
Amanda:
No, and that was the thing I was like there’s we just wouldn’t at this point. There’s different events that we can divide and conquer and decide like you go, I go, whatever. But it was after the first BDSS. I’m like I can’t, I’m not coming on. This value for both things for the level of content and we obviously have to divide and conquer the business but for also the other elements of connecting with the amazing community that you attract, and then also just the event is totally different and fun and exciting and I’m like I don’t want to do all of this awesome stuff, you know, without him. So that’s the pact that I was like you have got to come.
Kevin King:
Everybody says their event is different. I mean, you hear that from everybody, but how is BDSS actually different?
John:
One of the biggest things is the combination of the audience that you attract and you combine that with how you break it up between the learning and the taking in of content, but then the opportunities to have fun and network and build relationships. I’ve never been to another event that does it at the level that you do. You know, between the scavenger hunts and just all the different activities and dinners and you know, and breakout sessions, I mean there’s just so much going on that you never feel like, oh, I’m just going there to sit and learn. You know it’s so much more than that and I think that’s what really sets you apart from a lot of the other events that we’ve attended in the past and stopped going to because, quite frankly, we just weren’t getting out of it what we do out of BDSS.
Amanda:
Yeah, and I think, like the word that I’d like to use with that, more than anything, is experience, because, just like I just shared, I don’t wanna go to BDSS without John, because it is a true experience. And when you share experiences with other people, it’s one thing to go network and hang out in the evenings, that’s great. I mean, you want to do that, you want to do that at the events, but this is something when you share an experience with somebody, it really fortifies that relationship and, again, like I said, the level and quality of people that come to BDSS, like those are the people that you want to connect with and make bonds with over time and it’s just that, to me, is a thing that really, yeah, just solidifies the relationships and the connections with everybody that’s there.
Kevin King:
Some people say, Kevin, why is it so expensive? I mean part of that, the expense. I mean it’s an expensive event. As you guys know, you’ve been. It’s an expensive event to put on. We don’t cut any corners on anything. And you’re going to see in Hawaii. Of all the ones that you’ve been to, Hawaii is going to step it up even another notch because we’re always me and Mark. Mark is my producer on it. We’ve been partners in some businesses for a long time and he produces. He’s not a partner in the business but I pay him to produce it. A lot of money, actually, but he does a great job. But we always are like trying to make each one better and it’s not just like take a little feedback survey and like, ok, we got to change this around, but it’s like we always try and outdo ourself. And you’re going to see in Hawaii. When you walk into the room, you’re going to be like holy shit we’re talking about experiences.
Kevin King:
When you walk into that room, you’re going to see, you’re going to be like, whoa, this is on a whole another level of what we’re doing.
Kevin King:
And it’s not too late to come to the Billion Dollar Seller Summit. It’s happening next month, at the end of May, May 18th to the 23rd in Hawaii. You can go to billiondollardsellersummit.com and get all the information.
Amanda:
I think this is one of the things, as well that, like when we talk about like BDS or even Level Up and what you guys have been able to do over the years, I mean it’s not just, like you said, like this is one of the you know higher cost events like in the space, but then also, this is a time commitment and the fact that, like John and I are really like focused on ensuring that we maximize and spend our time you know where we need to be spending it, and so this is, to us, was not even a question like we’re going there and obviously from BDSS is a pretty significant time commitment, especially when we’re traveling to different places and then you have the event and then you have now we’re doing Level Up as well, but to us, like it, it’s just a no-brainer and it’s worth it.
Amanda:
Again, we know what you guys have done in the past with BDSS and we just know that this is just something that is absolutely incredible, besides the fact that, of course, you guys are doing it in, you know, Hawaii. So that’s going to be amazing as well. But I just encourage when it comes to, again, the cost factor or even like the time commitment. It’s just worth it. We found that what we’ll do then is just eliminate some of the other events that you know we just might not be able to make it to. You know there’s some that we can’t see you guys at all the time, but these are the ones we want to like focus on, like the highest quality ones, and this is definitely at the top.
Kevin King:
So if you had to say, of all the events you’ve been to, very specifically, what is the one thing that’s moved the needle for you the most, is it a specific technique? Tell me what that technique was. Or was it a specific person you met that you ended up partnering with or ended up managing your PPC, or whatever it may be? What is one specific thing that really just made a huge difference for you guys in your business from an event?
John:
I know some of the stuff that you and I have talked about is the importance of knowing your numbers and truly knowing your numbers, and the importance of digging in into having, you know, a good bookkeeper and a good accounting team and getting all that in place and then obviously also tying that in with the importance of like being structured in your business and having SOPs and systems in place, because, you know, in the early days you and I did a lot of just winging it and you know the same task, week after week, would be done completely different just because we had nothing in place. So, starting to talk to you know sellers that were well beyond where we were and seeing what they were doing and learning from them I think that was, you know, a huge takeaway that we got from attending different events is seeing how a true business is run and how a true brand is run, especially once you want to start scaling and, you know, going to that next level eight figures, nine figures and beyond.
Kevin King:
So, John, you have a military background. Thank you for your service. Appreciate that. How long were you in the service?
John:
From 1993 to 99, the Marine Corps.
Kevin King:
In the Marine Corps. Awesome. How do you see running a business similar to what the? How did the military prepare you for running a business? Or how do you see the similarities?
John:
You know, one of the biggest takeaways, I think, is that it happens and things don’t always go as planned and you can have one or two reactions. You can either say, oh, and you know, lose your nerve and panic, or you can just deal with it and keep your nose down and figure out what the problem is and work through it. And I think that’s one of the biggest takeaways that I have from the military is that very little phases me, very little stresses me out. You know, if we run into a problem, it is what it is and I know that we have to figure out a solution and we get to work on that. And just, you know the discipline aspect of it.
John:
You know, obviously there’s a lot of discipline, especially in the Marine Corps and with what I did in it. You know, I have no problem being very systematic and following procedures and stuff, once I know that they work and that they’re in place. So I think those things really carry over well into running a business. And you know, running a big business, you know something that we have now, thankfully, and continuing to grow. So I think that’s just going to continue to help in this journey.
Kevin King:
And you guys started out. You said, Amanda, you started out selling textbooks and books and stuff. Is that right? How long did you do that for before you, actually, you said the FBA model. You switched around 2017, 2018. How long were you doing the resale model?
Amanda:
Too long. We did it until we had my daughter for about 11 years, so I had started that.
Kevin King:
11 years doing the resale.
Amanda:
Yeah. So I started that we hit a real. It’s just something we focused on and we did really well at it, actually, like, if we want to compare margins, cause it’s totally different when you are scouting and selling books and we were going to Canada and importing books from Canada and that type of thing.
Kevin King:
Are these textbooks? Are these just any kind of books?
Amanda:
Everything.
John:
Mostly non-fiction.
Amanda:
Anything that had value really, but we got really good at it. So, like I said, I had started that after very shortly after college, and then John was in finance and he was kind of helping me on the side because we had just gotten together. And then in 2008, so it was about a year and a half that we kind of, you know, we’re doing that while he was still working, and it just got to the point where, like you know what, like let’s just do this full time, and so I was already doing it full time.
Kevin King:
After college, you never worked a normal job, you just stayed in this hustle.
Amanda:
I did, yeah, I did mortgages for about a year, that’s how John and I met, so, and I did really well, within mortgages I mean made a really good amount of money, but I was allowed to do whatever I wanted, basically because it was full commission. So I started doing this on the side as well, before we had met and so I was doing both. And then it just got to a point again that I was doing good enough a couple months in and I was like all right, I got enough money here, I’m just going to jump. And I just bought my first house. But I’m like I’m just going to jump and see if I can go all in on this. And it was early, early days. I mean that’s 2006. I think we I don’t even know we started. We didn’t even do FBA to start. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe how long ago it was.
Kevin King:
Were you putting the listing up, or were you jumping on something in existence that I have one to sell and you were staying on that, or I think we were.
Amanda:
No, we were jumping. So we used one of the first tools. It was called Media Scouter. One of the first tools to scout books was called Media Scouter and our friend was a beta tester, so he knew the person that created it and nobody else had it. It wasn’t open to the public and so he had this. I’m like, well, that looks pretty cool. I have extra time, let me, you know, will you teach me how to do this? He’s like, yeah, he’s like just stay on your side of the state, because he was scouting on the other side of Michigan. And so I’m like all right, cool, I’m going to start doing this. So, yeah, it was in the super early days. The margins are totally different. So, like we were netting as much as, a you know, a low-ish, low to mid seven figure private label business because of the margin. So ours were exponential, right. So like you’re buying books for like nothing and they’re selling for $50, a hundred dollars. So it was a total. So when we switched to private label, that’s a totally different mindset. For the most part, anything that had a barcode, cause we were, we were using. It would give us information and say like, okay, what are the prices, what is the BSR, and you decide if you’re going to purchase these. Then we sent them all into Amazon, FBA and Amazon at that time up until like I think it was 2018, only charged you for storage fees up to if on the second SKU of the same item. So we had about at that time, about 20,000, we built it up to about 20,000 unique SKUs. For the most part, anything that we had multiple SKUs of is stuff that would sell fast, pretty quickly, so we never really got hit with those charges. So our storage fees were basically nothing.
Amanda:
But in 2018, they made a huge, because this is what Amazon does, right, they made a huge change in fees and it was going to go from like I don’t know how much we were spending a month, like a few hundred dollars or something. I’d have to look back but it was going to go to $18,000 a month because they were including all of those products or all of those individual SKU books now at that time. So we had to extract all that and we knew we needed to kind of, we wanted to get out of it because we just knew we had my daughter and the best thing we need to build a business that’s not super reliant on us. We can’t scale this whatever. So we had to bring all those books back because we weren’t paying $18,000 a month for them to be there, sold off the quick stuff and we pivoted to focus on private label.
Amanda:
So that’s how we just started actually just selling in the pet space. We picked a product, started selling it and that just kind of became our main product of focus. And then in 2018, as well, as when we started our 2017 or 2018 is when we actually started our current brand. Just yeah, all of it.
Kevin King:
So when you were doing this books, you had your software tools, what was it? Was it analyzing other sites? Or like half-prized books? Were you hitting garage sales? And like searching through stuff with a scanner, with your phone?
John:
Yeah.
Amanda:
All of it.
John:
It was one of those little HP scanners with like the little reader that you attach into it and we’re just sitting there just scanning barcode after barcode and it would quickly tell you, you know, the use price, new prices, how many, you know how many items, how many sellers, BSR and then we just make on the fly decisions. So we’re sitting there literally just going through thousands of books at you know different university sales, garage sales, estate sales. I mean, we hit everything that we could find that had media products for sale. And you know, after a while, when you’re doing this, you start to establish like a pattern because a lot of the universities have sales the same time of year or a harbor, every other month, whatever. So we had like a whole calendar built out of. This is our schedule for hitting all these different venues. And yeah, once, once we uncovered Canada. We used to go there.
John:
I mean, they have all the like the university of Toronto’s got all these like satellite colleges and I mean we were, it was a goldmine, especially back in the days when we were doing it, when, you know, not too many, there wasn’t too much competition.
John:
I mean, like she said we were buying books for two, three dollars, these college textbooks that then were selling for, you know, 100, 200, and yeah, and then we were. We were one of the first ones to jump on FBA. So it got to the point where we were sending these books in and all the merchant fulfilled, you know, would be at X price and then ours at FBA we would just price it 75, to the point where we were sending these books in and all the merchants fulfilled, you know, would be at X price and then ours at FBA we would just price it 75 to a hundred percent above the highest merchant fulfilled price and we’d always get the sale. And you know, obviously that caught on after a while, but you know it was a cool, fun wave to ride down while it lasted.
Kevin King:
Were y’all dividing when you went to a garage sale or a sale, or were y’all like hitting a town and like Amanda, you go one way and John, you went another way, or were y’all like doing them together?
John:
No, we always did it together. We very rarely split up like at the sales themselves. We would split up. You know she’d be like all right, I’m going to health and wellness, you go over here to Science.
Amanda:
Sometimes we’d fight over the sections because it’s just so much fun. It’s like a go man-match and it’s really fast. So you’re going there and at the time, like people started to catch on that, oh what are we doing? What are people doing? So other people, competition started to go. It could get pretty vicious. It’s kind of like there was that show. It was kind of like that storage war show. I’m like I swear to, gosh, like all the people that we like had have like different characters for all of them. Like you know the personalities and what they did, and like the competition was fierce, like when you were going into it. It was fun but we would always. That was kind of the thing of why we enjoyed. It is because we again we got to do it together.
Amanda:
So while we’re in there and we were just we. It was a good time.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I remember I did a garage sale, probably 10 years ago or something, that I did like three of them. I was getting rid of a lot of stuff and moving and to my first house that I bought and I remember these guys, like three or four guys, came to every one of them with their little scanners and they’re just going through. I had CDs and DVDs and that’s all they cared about. They’re going straight to that thing and they’re trying to. If one of them was there, they try to elbow the other guy out so he could get to the little the table first or whatever, and just go through scan, scan, scan, scan. So when you find one of those, it says 50 cents and you find it and you hit that scanner and it says this is selling for $200. And your mind is going cha-ching, cha-ching.
Amanda:
That’s it the whole time.
John:
That what it is.
Amanda:
And you know what’s funny. Actually those little-.
Kevin King:
That was paid for. The guys were paid for. We’re good.
Amanda:
Like one book will pay for the entire trip. So it was again. It was a great time. That was a lot of fun. But again, it was somewhat of a challenge. That mindset shift when you get into private label, because that’s a totally different ball game. So it’s interesting. People like oh you guys, you know, OG seller’s been selling since 2006. I’m like, this is we’ve only started building our brand. Since 2017, we’ve only been private label and focusing on that model. It’s a totally different model just because we’re selling to Amazon. So there’s just different things that you need to do. But yes, we had the experience, obviously, with understanding how, you know, challenging the different and navigating Amazon could be. But it is.
Amanda:
It was funny and they actually have like on the different software, again, it’s been so long since we’ve done anything. We literally like dropped it hardcore in 2018. I was like we’re not focusing on that, it’s not going to be worth it. So we haven’t really done any of that at all since then. But they would have like the little sound like you would do it and you could put the sound on and be like cha-ching, cha-ching.
Amanda:
Some people would actually leave it on so like when somebody would hear it multiple times, it’d be able to grab first. We didn’t even have to scan. So the thing is we’re just grabbing a bunch of the stuff that we knew for sure was going to like pay off. So it’s like the things where there’s things that have similarities in each area, and then you’d go through back and scan but was just the thing because it was so competitive. But yeah, after a while we just got really good at that. I could totally go to a couple book sales, I think, and have a lot of fun still.
John:
Good luck, I have zero desire.
Kevin King:
You go girl, you go. I will stay here in the warehouse and pack some pallets. You go.
Amanda:
I’d probably be disappointed because of the way that, you know, everybody does have access and obviously times change and you really have to not get afraid of it but just find, I guess, continuously that edge to stay ahead of everything. Because as we were doing it throughout the time, I mean libraries and charity sales started to then go through their stuff first, right. So like you would recognize the sales that were cherry picked because then they want to get the max out of it. So then some of the libraries, good for them, they’re trying to raise money for the library they would then pull them and set up a separate system so that they were the seller for these books.
Amanda:
So then when you would go to those sales, you would notice you’re not going to get anything that is really of value. So we would just cut them from the list and again continue to focus on the other stuff which I think Canada kept us in the game a lot longer because there wasn’t FBA out there and that was like, it was you know, it definitely dragged out until so that’s when we’re bringing them over but now, obviously, it was, I don’t know when it started. Like a few years before we quit, they actually did have some. FBA started to pop up. More and more Canadian competitors that were book scouters started to come.
Kevin King
So the switch to private label. So you’re in the pet space. Is that the only space or you’re in multiple space or just pets?
Amanda:
We were in multiple. We had three different brands and it was about two years ago when I started recognizing, we started focusing on like systems and processes and, you know, really essentialism and just trying to make sure that we had discipline and focus. We recognized and just basically did an audit of those other brands and we’re like, ok, how much effort is it going to take us to hit our targets or what we want to accomplish with these other brands? And if we were to take all of that effort and put it into one brand, you know what would we get out of it? And so the ROI was way better to focus. So we actually just cut those other brands. We didn’t sell them.
Amanda:
There wasn’t much I mean to actually like sell off. We still have the accounts and stuff but we just phased out all the inventory and we said you know what I’m done with that. I mean, I even went to China in order to start. You know one of the brands there and it’s not easy. It’s not easy to cut that stuff out. But I mean, obviously, if you’re going to play the long game and we’ve been doing this for so long, we just had to realize that that’s something that we needed to do and
Kevin King:
You still have those old accounts that you don’t use anymore?
John:
Yeah.
Amanda:
We’re holding on for the highest price.
Kevin King:
You should sell those, you know, these you could sell those things for money, especially if they have the daily payouts
Amanda:
I know, I know yeah, those daily.
Kevin King:
I just sold three old seller central. One only went for two grand because it’s only a couple years old and have very much feedback on it. It’s an account we just kind of as a burner account in a way, but I got five grand for two other ones from like 2020 and my 2016 one they offered me 20 grand for but I decided to hold on to it and then I had a 1P account, a vendor account that I’d never used back. I don’t know if you remember maybe it’s before you’re doing private label in brown 2016, maybe it’s 2017 Mike McCleary from Amazing did this webinar and there used to be another PPC thing. It was called, I forget the name of it was managed by Better Amazon Marketing Services or something like that. It was kind of a middle ground between vendor and the current PPC that we know.
Kevin King:
They eventually eliminated it, but in order to get access to that and get some of the data you had to have a 1P account. So Mike showed everybody how to sign up for a 1P account. I never shipped. I think I might have shipped one thing into it. I think you had to ship like 10 products into it to activate it. So I did that and that’s all I ever did. And just sitting there, and these guys, when I met them at the ASGTG, they’re like you have a 1P account. I said, yeah, so that’s worth a lot of money. So they took a look at it because it didn’t have any history on it. It would have been worth probably double but I got 40 grand for that account.
John:
Wow.
Amanda:
That’s amazing. I love it.
Kevin King:
Yeah, it’s crazy what that market is. So you’re sitting on some assets there.
John:
Yeah, I think we got three or four accounts, seller central accounts that are aged.
Amanda:
And good standing and we’ve been aware like it just hasn’t been something on the forefront, but definitely aware that they’ll be something that when John gets around to it, he can sell it.
Kevin King:
What’s up, Kevin King here? Have you heard about Helium 10 Elite? That’s right. Helium 10 Elite is open to everybody right now. For just an extra $99 a month, you can get access to me, get access to the monthly trainings that we do, where I bring in guest speakers and we do the most cutting edge and advanced stuff for advanced sellers. Plus, I do seven ninja hacks every single month where I’m showing you the latest tips and tricks on how to save money, sell more. It’s just awesome.
Kevin King:
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Kevin King:
So you focus, you double down and you focused on the one brand. So how many SKUs are you managing on this one pet brand right now?
Amanda:
39.
0:26:08 – Kevin King:
39. And how often are you launching? Some people say you always need to be launching. How often are you launching? Are you kind of like sets? Are these variations? Are they 39 unique things or it’s like 10 unique things and there’s variations within them?
Amanda:
Yeah, we have four parent and so the rest are variations. I think that it depends on the space that you’re in and it depends on the products that you’re choosing. I think that that’s one of the things that we had been very intentional about and I don’t know if initially it was intentional. I don’t know if initially it was intentional, but over time we’ve recognized and go back and forth as to what different products we would want to bring to market. When does it make sense to bring new products to market? We really try and focus on products that will continue on forever.
Amanda:
For the most part, like we’re not, you know, looking, we’re not in the trends. You know we try and figure out if we’re going to launch a product, what can we do for the long haul in order to protect and build a moat for that to be something that we can continue to lead in a space. And if it takes a little while, it doesn’t mean that we go into just new spaces, but we are committed to making that. If there’s a way, if there’s products that are being successful in that space, we’re going to figure out a way to do it and, you know, be better or, you know, have a different strategy in order to ensure that those are, you know, quote unquote winners. So we haven’t really brought products to market that we need to kill off. I mean, we might change variations and stuff depending on, you know, what’s going on, but for the most part we’re pretty intentional and methodical with that.
Kevin King:
You do a lot of subscribe and save too right a lot.
Amanda:
We have 20% of our whole business is subscribe and save.
Kevin King:
So I know one of your products, I think I know it’s something similar to what I used to sell. I believe I won’t say what it was, but I used to sell. I won’t say what it was, but I and that product it can be considered a commodity, and in a lot of ways. And so how are you competing on that? What are you doing? I no longer sell in that category, so, I’ll just leave it at that. I don’t want to give too much away, but so how do you differentiate when you’re selling a commodity? What are some of the? I know you can’t give specifics on your specific product because I give it away, but what are some things that people need to think about as a seller? When, if you’re selling a commodity-based product, that other than just putting a different logo and a different name on it, how do you differentiate? People say, well, I’ll make mine better quality, but people don’t know that when they’re first coming in to buy the product, what do you? What’s important to differentiate that? Because you’re one of your categories, is super competitive and y’all do well in that category.
Amanda:
We have a couple of them and actually the category that you’re speaking of, that’s actually our lowest. We’ve given no love to that truly right now. That’s our fourth one on the totem pole we will. So that’s the thing. Once we get the other ones, we kind of pick and focus on getting one really going and the other ones we don’t really do formal launches or whatever we allow people, as long as it’s great quality, we’re going to get great reviews and we have great customer service and all of that kind of stuff we really do care. So I think trying to figure out and being hyper focused on what matters most to the customer and then, that’s it. That’s what you serve up, and people say that all the time. But when you really want to have we have a very small product line and we really want to make sure to focus on those small things incremental increases over time. We’re kind of like that slow and steady.
John:
So I think the biggest thing is the supplier relationships and working with the best people out there for each of the product lines and that takes time. You know, very rarely are these folks going to just take a call from a stranger and be like sure, I’m going to start working with you. I mean, this has been a multi-year process and that’s one of the reasons that we’ve been able to keep a small catalog is because our product lines have very high barriers of entry to get into them and once you do, finding the best within those particular product lines is very difficult because it is a commodity item.
Amanda:
And then at scale too. That’s the challenge as well. So all of that, and then when you actually want to scale, that’s a huge challenge too.
John:
Yeah, the biggest thing is not so much that you need to come up with something different, you know, from product A from us to product B from a competitor. It’s just making sure that we can consistently provide the quality that customers are used to.
John:
And that’s difficult, I mean, I’m sure you know, even with the product line that we shared. You know having that consistency in quality is difficult when you’re talking about a commodity item, and we’ve been able to do that over time, you know, just through. You know maintaining and building these relationships with these different manufacturers and suppliers to the point now where you know we’re their number one buyers for these different product categories and we consistently get their A-plus premium stuff and customers. That’s why our subscriber save is so high and just continues to grow, because they know, with each order, month after month or whatever it is, that they’re going to continue to get the very best and there’s not going to be a variation of one month, you know, I got an A plus chew and then the next month you know this thing was falling apart or whatever the case may be. So just really establishing that consistency with quality is probably the biggest thing that set us apart and allowed us to continue to grow at the pace that we’ve been growing.
Kevin King:
Is this all US based sourcing or are you sourcing from outside the US as well?
Amanda:
It depends on the product. Yeah, it depends on the product.
John:
Some of the products that we have. It’s actually not a good idea to source from the US, because the US makes very low quality versions of the product.
Amanda:
It’s like tequila you don’t get US tequila.
John:
Yeah, so we go to where the best source is and for some of the products it is US and we only get it from the US and we only get it from certain suppliers, and for others it comes from other regions where they absolutely make the best, highest quality, and that’s where we get it from.
Kevin King:
I think I just guessed one of your other products, but it’s okay.
Amanda:
It’s not super duper hard to you know. You’d be able to find it in a minute.
Kevin King:
There might be a. Well, yeah, there might. You have to across an ocean.
Amanda:
Yes, you do.
Kevin King:
Please leave it there. I won’t give any other geographic things away. So, Amanda, you said that knowing what the customers want is one of your keys to making this. How do you know what they want? What are some techniques actually? What do you do? I know the common ones. Oh, I read the reviews, of course, Kevin, but beyond just reading the reviews or other competitors’ reviews, what they’re complaining about? The common thing of reading reviews, what they’re complaining about, fix it what they like. Double down on that.
Kevin King:
What else do you guys do to actually get into the head of your customers, to get into that avatar that you’re selling to, and to know what? Do you interact with them directly? Do you get on the phone with them? Do you have a community somewhere where they’re talking to? When you decided to put out a new treat, do you like run and buy them, or a new item, or not necessarily a treat or toy or whatever it may be Do you run it by them? How do you know what they want? Or are they just like well, they’re buying it, so they must want it?
Amanda:
I think the number one thing is that, like you said, I don’t think we’ve rolled out anything new for a few years. Specifically, once we establish something, we’re going hard to build that. So, yes, you listen to them. When customers have complaints, I mean it. It isn’t, but all of our lines are relatively challenging in a sense that, what the customer is going to receive is going to be slightly different from what they are, you know, seeing, basically.
Kevin King:
It’s a lot of variations of the product. It’s not uniform.
Amanda:
Exactly. So selling direct. It’d be different if you’re selling it in person, but selling it direct to consumer via e-commerce that’s already a challenge, which is why another thing, it’s kind of another moat. It’s such a pain in the product, that expectation, and making sure that we’re meeting that expectation. And also, I mean, we are our customers. So we’ve been heavily involved in dog rescue for years. Really, you know, we can kind of go into it. Our main products are like really like tough chews for dogs, like chews, not shoes. People get that all like, but chews so, and we have big dogs that like to chew stuff, and so the thing is like we want to have things that are, to us, what’s important to us for our dogs. We want them to be long lasting, we want them to be a good value and we want them to make sure that they are um, we can. We can trust the sourcing, because that’s really important. And so once you stay consistent to that and continue to build up that trust and play the long game. We don’t cut corners ever like we’ve worked with different suppliers and if there’s anything that is not in the line we’re done, I don’t even care the pricing that you’re going to give us. We pay a premium for a lot of what we actually have because it’s just not something that we’re willing to do.
Amanda:
And again, we want to be able to build that trust, just like anything to us that takes time but it compounds over time. So that’s kind of our focus there but we do, like I said, I mean, we will look at, you know, if our refund rate is increasing disproportionately to our sales or if you know we’re getting a lot more messages and customer service or there’s different things. You know our gal that’s been handling our customer service for years. She’s our happy tail ambassador is what we call her. But if she starts noticing that something’s like happening or she’s getting different messages or an influx or whatever, like we are on it, because that’s just something to us that we wanna analyze and evaluate and sure we can ask our customers that. You know, when it comes to, you know, if it’s confusing to us, but pretty much we can kind of nail it. Between myself and John we think really differently about things, so a lot of times we can figure out like, oh well, yeah, this would piss me off too. Or you know what happens? Like we can kind of put ourselves into their shoes.
Amanda:
Now, when it comes to the new products that we are going to be bringing out eventually, again, each year, we kind of get a little excited. Like new products and new stuff is always very exciting but we try and again decide does it really make sense or do we go harder in the places, other channels there’s a million different things that we could do in order to sell our stuff. But what are we going to focus on? But every year we kind of evaluate, like, what different products we might want to get into and for that, when we are going to do that there’s a couple of things that we would take into consideration. One, we’ll go to different pet expos. One is, you know, global pet expos coming up. John’s going to go to that.
Amanda:
Sometimes we’ve attended SuperZoo in Las Vegas. Those are the only two that we’ve attended but to kind of get potential ideas, connect with some suppliers there, you know, see if we want to bring something unique to market. So we always kind of have this discussion to see if it’s something that we want to do. And then that next layer for sure we actually would go to our customer base, and get feedback. So we would implement that if and when, like when we do decide to go and, you know, bring on new products, definitely we would want to get feedback from them. Thankfully, we do have, you know, a decent sized list that we haven’t really tapped into a ton, but we’ve been able to kind of build up. So we are going to be starting to be very intentional with that as well.
Kevin King:
What are you doing to build that list? I’m assuming this is an email list or something. What are you doing? Is it product inserts? Is it something you’re doing on social media? Are you doing lead magnets? What are you doing to build that?
John:
Yeah, the big thing that’s built probably 95% of our list is product inserts. We keep it very basic and simple. I mean, one side of our insert is basically like a thank you note with a picture of us, you know, the full family with the dogs. And then on the other side, we’ve experimented with different things involving QR codes. That’s always evolving and changing, but something involving a QR code that’s always an ongoing test. But, yeah, I mean we’ve done quite well. I mean, I think at this point we’ve got probably 7,000 to 8,000 big email lists of actual shoppers you know consumers of our products, so you know when the time does come to really tap into that list. You know this is a great commodity that we have to use for down the road when we actually decide to start using it.
Kevin King:
So is the goal to sell the company, keep building and sell it, or you just having fun running it and that’s the current plan, or what? Where do you guys see this going?
Amanda:
So eventually, right, all of us are going to exit our business in some way. So there, so we do need to have that on the horizon. And years ago I had, you know, read the book built to sell, and so I, we definitely started taking it more seriously, in a sense of that’s how we would want to operate. However, with each phase of you know, us aligning and we do this seriously at least each year John and I will align on, like what is our vision for our business and, as we, you know, look at what we want to accomplish and we take on different challenges. And then you know we’re growing the business. Then we’re like, okay, well, you, we could sell. I mean because we were, there were people, we were in talks.
Amanda:
You know, a few years back, people were interested, obviously when there was like the big craze going on, with all the aggregators and not heavy talks, because we needed to ask ourselves, like, is this the right time? Do we want to sell? And we’re just really at this point, we’ve gotten to a stage that we are enjoying building the business. We’re enjoying this next phase of building a brand and taking on the challenge of building systems and processes and more structure and running it as a business, and currently our vision is really aligned with that. You know, building a team of you know, really incredible elite players, but keeping it small and lean so that we can continue to be dynamic and evolve.
Amanda:
And yeah, I think it’s important just to continue to check in with each other to make sure that vision is aligned. And so, yeah, that’s kind of right now where we are building it to increase our valuation of the business, but there is not a hard. This is when we want to sell, so we don’t have a complete exit point, but we have. Hey, we want the valuation to be here at this, you know, at in this year in order to give us the option to sell for XYZ. But by that time, who knows, you know, what is that next phase of growth? You know what is that next phase of growth? But yeah, that’s kind of how we are looking at it right now.
Kevin King:
So you’re mid about mid seven figures right now, on gross?
Amanda:
Yeah.
Kevin King:
Are you doing just Amazon? Are you doing anything off of Amazon? You have Shopify, or do you have anything else?
Amanda:
Yeah, we have Shopify but it’s nothing that we drive traffic to at all. So it’s more just like having a presence. Yes, we have sales there, obviously, you want to have that again. More just like having a presence. Yes, we have sales there, obviously, you want to have that again. Just kind of, we check ourselves and say where do we want to focus? We only have and again, our team is super tiny and John’s running the warehouse too and that’s something that he’s started to really like and enjoy and kind of take to a point to where we have workers in there that he is kind of working through to train up to continue to take that off his plate and him to be more in that supervisor role and really supply chain manager. So we haven’t went into any of the marketplaces. We do know that those are potential options and when we do, and we have everything like set, if we decide that we want to bring on something new because again, anything new that you do is a level of complication so like if we are going to focus on Shopify, that’s different than our skill sets and everything that we’ve, you know, built and systematized for Amazon and so, again, running our own warehouse that also there’s. There’s benefits to that, but there’s also things that we have to get into place. So, while we do, we, you know, run Shopify. We do sell direct to consumer, we do fulfill those orders directly at the warehouse, but then for the most part, the activities are FBA, focused in our warehouse.
Amanda:
So, yeah, we haven’t there’s so much on the table for us to continue to tap into, to grow and scale. But, as you know, because you’ve talked about this in the past, when it comes to scaling a product and what most people get into is the cash flow situation. So you got to be really, really good to make sure that your cash flow is on point for your targets, cause the last thing that you want to do is start, you know, ramping everything up and growing and then like we need to be able to figure out how to go to the mob and get money to, you know, get our inventory. So that’s, we just try and really keep everything on point and make sure that we can, you know, kind of predict that and not add too many levels of complications, because it can go haywire pretty quick.
Kevin King:
So, John, you’re running the warehouse, why do you have if you’re doing FBA? Just want to explain to people listening why do you have a warehouse?
John:
Because of the nature of our product. We buy completely in bulk as a raw product and then, with our different variations and stuff, we have to touch it, meaning we have to package it based on the different sizes and quantities and whatnot.
Kevin King:
So you’re doing your own packaging. You’re doing your own bundling or kitting or whatever you want to call it in your warehouse. So you’re getting in bulk coming in and then so you’re actually doing your own QC in a way too there. So you’re making sure that if you see bad pieces come out, that your supplier, someone else or some guy working for 10 cents an hour somewhere might have thrown in, you’re like nope, that goes-.
John:
That’s exactly it. I didn’t bring that up, but that that partially answers, you know, one of your questions from earlier. The fact is that we’re touching pretty much every single piece, so our QC is bar none, especially compared to some of our competitors that just take the product and either take it already packaged from the supplier or just take it, pass it on to the warehouse workers and they just package it without any kind of QC. We’re very stringent on our QC. That’s one of the things that we hear all the time from our customers is wow, your quality is very consistent month after month because it is a consumable product. So we get a lot of those repeat buys, whether it’s described and saved or not, and our QC and quality is always on point because we have that extra step here at the warehouse of receiving it, reconciling and QC-ing it and then packaging it up and sending it out to Amazon FBA.
Kevin King:
Do you emphasize that in your image stack? Because damn, I would. I would actually have a graphic like a split screen, even a cartoon or something that’s with an American flag, that’s behind you right now, and some guy in your warehouse like looking at the piece and he sees a little tiny one and a big one. He’s like it’s an X through, it’s like, and then on the other side it says our competition and it’s a bunch of kids sitting on the floor. Just sticks you know dirty floor, just stick stuff in a box. That right there. I mean you said your customers, say it, but what about the ones that aren’t your customers? That’s a major major. You were talking earlier about selling commodities and selling differentiating. That right, there could if you did something along those lines. Maybe are you already doing something like that in your image stack?
Amanda:
Yeah, not specifically like that per se, but I mean we do have like ours versus theirs. But I love that suggestion and we’re definitely I’m going to. I wrote a note. We’re going to get that over to the creative team and have them work on that.
Kevin King:
You know what if you like quality or made in the USA. All those are important. You know, made in the USA or assembled in the USA. However you’re saying it, better quality quotes from the customer saying but if you illustrate that people visually will understand that and I think that, right there could add 10% or more to your sales.
Amanda:
I like it. See, these are the things. I don’t need to start a new product to bring us in 10%, I just need to do this. So these are the things that we focus on to get really, really, really good on. So no, that’s awesome and I think that’s one of the big things, because we do, while it is a pain, we do things that are kind of so if somebody is going to come into this, they are going to have to commit in order to compete, and that’s why we try and look at, like, what are we really good at? What is the thing? And that’s one of the things that we do bring in. We touch everything, you know, and we’ll continue to do that.
Amanda:
And then, especially now when we’re talking about these, you know, the Amazon fees and such. We are going to really, really, really focus on all of these new fees and making sure that the warehouse operations are incredibly efficient and do our best to minimize that as much as possible. We already went through and reworked and did an entire overhaul, which we’ve wanted to for a while, but entire overhaul on our packaging. Because of these new fees, we really needed to drill down and make sure that we were minimizing as much as possible down and make sure that we were minimizing as much as possible. So we invested in you know some additional machinery and stuff like that to be able to do that and just hopefully, you know, not have, as you know, waste go into paying you know Amazon for some fees that we don’t need to, you know, pay.
Kevin King:
So just one last question. We’ve been talking here for a little while. We could probably, I’m sure we could keep going for quite some time, but what people always want to know? What’s it like working with your significant other? What are the advantages or disadvantages? What are some of the really good things and what are some of the things like, oh my gosh, I wish I just had a different partner on this. What are some tell me about working together in the business, day in, day out, as a couple, and how do you separate business from personal life, or do you? It’s just one blur.
Amanda:
I would not be doing this, I wouldn’t be in this or running a business, or even from how we’ve done it before, the longevity and the commitment and all of that comes from running it and building something incredible with your partner and that is, I think, that’s allowed us to have that like stick and stay, because when you know time gets tough, it’s tough together, like when we’re both on the same team and we’re both, you know, pushing forward and I think that the tremendous benefits that coming along with that I mean we’ve been together it’ll be, like I said, married right around our 15 year anniversary. Actually, we’re going to be in Hawaii for our 15 year anniversary, I think. So you know, working together that entire time, it increases your the necessity for clear communication and you’ll never nail that I don’t think like it’s always a constant change, but you learn so much about you know the, your other person and you learn to respect the things that drive you crazy about much about you know your other person and you learn to respect the things that drive you crazy about them, because you understand not only the benefits that they bring to like the business, but the benefits that they just bring to your life. It’s like they talk about like opposites attract and that’s the thing.
Amanda:
I think a lot of people look at that and like, oh, why they probably drive you crazy and it’s probably there could very well be good reasons, obviously, if you guys have a good relationship. And so when it comes to the business piece, I just think that there’s that implicit trust. You know we’re both on the same page. You know we’ve had seen a lot of our friends that have had, you know, different business partners and different things that have happened and whatever, and it really that is really like a marriage in a sense anyways. So like with us, we’re stuck together for good till death do us part. So like we’re making this work right. Like there’s no exit plan from this situation. I think there’s a lot of benefits there and so, John, you can roll in a little bit.
John:
I think that was one of the biggest things that I was going to emphasize is that working together 24-7 for 15 plus years really enhances your communication skills, Because if you get into a fight, you really can’t let it drag out for too long because we’ve got a business to run and we have to communicate. So it really forces you to become really good at just dealing with it and figuring out what the root cause is. And yeah, there might be a two, three day period where we’re bitter towards each other, but you know what? We still push through and make sure that what has to happen with the business gets done, and then gosh.
Kevin King:
I’m trying to think it’s that military training again. Right?
Amanda:
Well, and I think one of the things, too, because I can speak on this we just we just make such good progress. Again, it’s not perfect and it never will be. We’ll always encounter different things. And then you, just you start building up your toolbox of ways to deal with stuff or recognizing when things are off. And when I talked about alignment, you really have to be in alignment regularly and if there’s any friction, that happens, whether it’s in business or between us personally, we recognize quickly that oh, there’s a reason we’re not in alignment, whether it’s who’s doing what at what time and that type of stuff. So we have to have that, you know, weekly. Sometimes if things are really crazy, we could do it, you know, touch points daily, but for the most part it’s weekly. We might, you know, have a couple, couple of things throughout the week, but you really need to make sure again that you have that long-term vision but then that short-term like execution, as well. And once you’re both on and I don’t think this has to do necessarily with you, but with being not just business partners um, I think this goes for just like relationships in general, cause I could see it, you know, if somebody, if you guys are working two different jobs or doing whatever, or if you have one person that’s in the business and one person’s not, you still have to be aligned. You’re still a team. Holistically, you still have stuff to take care of outside of it, and I think that that’s just not something that is recognized. For the most part is like, just think about it as a sports team and everybody has a different position to play and you need to cover those positions. But everybody needs to understand what the other person’s doing and why and what is the true end goal. If you guys can align on what that true end goal is, then it just makes it that much more smooth. And I do know like when it comes to a negative typically and I think this happens we’ve talked to different people that are in partnerships with their spouse and it is challenging when it comes to dividing the personal from the business. For sure, I don’t look at it like it’s divided at all. My life is my life holistically, with everything that I do.
Amanda:
We’ve gotten to situations to where John is more so, hey, like he’s at the warehouse and he’s getting stuff done and it’s tactical and all that kind of stuff, and then he wants a little bit more of that separation and I think that’s fair, which is why another thing when somebody says, you know what would drive you crazy about somebody, or whatever, like you need to take a step back. And I need to take a step back and say, well, that’s a valid thing to say, like I would really like to take off this business hat and put on our, you know, husband and wife hat, and if we’re aligned and both of us are wearing the hats at the appropriate time, things go well. If I’m wearing, you know, a business hat, he’s wearing the husband hat and there’s just conflict. We’re communicating in different ways because we do have different positions. If we’re talking business to each other like face-to-face at home situation, that doesn’t go as well. But one of the tricks and so this is something if you have found that you’re working with your spouse and things have been, it’s a challenge with that is do limit your business communication to business communication. Meaning, sometimes we’ll have business meetings on zoom in the same house because like that’s kind of what we’ve shifted to. We’ll go into separate areas of zoom. It’s a different way of communicating and the person feels it differently if we’re sitting right next to each other and talking about stuff and I’m just like point blank, like going through stuff. You’re supposed to be, you’re right next to each other, you know you love each other. This is your spouse and dah, dah, dah and like it’s not. It’s a different feeling. So that is that’s something that has also helped.
Amanda:
And then also, not just randomly bringing things up to him at all times when we’re at the house. I will send an email because I need to respect his time as hey, like he is off the clock, right, like, of course, and he doesn’t. He doesn’t have strict hours. He’ll probably respond to me in the email within a couple hours. But even if we’re right there and I recognize something, I don’t just jump at him and be like hey, about the business, I’m not perfect. I’m sure it happens. He’ll probably say, yeah, well, you just did it the other day, but it’s been so much better. And so I’ve recognized that, hey, you know what? It’s way more effective for me to communicate in those business methods if it’s about business and then if it’s about life and everything that we want to do and that has actually been a recent, I think, change in kind of dynamic. That’s really been helpful.
Kevin King:
That’s awesome. That’s really good advice. I appreciate that. Well, Amanda and John, I really appreciate you taking some time today to come on the AM PM Podcast. It’s been great chatting with you and I’m looking forward to seeing you next month in Hawaii at both BDSS and Level Up. It’s going to be an amazing experience. We have something you’re not going to stop talking about in store.
Amanda:
Awesome. Thanks, Kevin. We appreciate it. Can’t wait.
Kevin King:
Appreciate it. I love speaking with Amanda and John, hanging out with them at BDSS and at other events. Great power couple, awesome people, had several dinners together with them. It’s nice steakhouses and everything. Just good, genuine people, and so I hope you enjoyed this episode. We’ll be back again next week with another amazing episode. Also, don’t forget if you missed this episode. We’ll be back again next week with another amazing episode. Also, don’t forget, if you missed an episode, you can go back at ampmpodcast.com and check out all the past episodes are here on Spotify or Apple or wherever you’re listening to this podcast on. Be sure to check out all the past episodes too. There’s some really good gems in there.
Kevin King:
Before I leave you today, I’ve got some words of wisdom for you. Go sign up for the Billion Dollar Sellers newsletter, billiondollarsellers.com. It’s totally free. Every Monday and Thursday. People say it’s like a $25,000 a year mastermind by email, totally free, billiondollarsellers.com. And today’s words of wisdom for this week are a life is not important except for the impact it has on others. A life is not important except in the way it impacts the life of others. That’s a famous quote by Jackie Robinson, and it’s a good one. See you again next week.
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