How This Pro Athlete Transitioned from the Tough World of Rugby to the Challenges of Entrepreneurship – 256
Even though the sport of rugby isn’t well known in every corner of the globe, there is a universal understanding that it’s a tough sport played by tough men and women. In this episode of the AM/PM Podcast, Tim Jordan welcomes Lucas Caneda, a pro rugby player and Global Team Lead at UNIQORN Incubator who disputes that fact.
Lucas says that he considers sports (and for that matter, e-commerce) teams to be “the family that you pick.” He goes on to say that instead of considering himself to be a tough, strong guy, it’s oftentimes the supportive group of 14 teammates on the field with him that give him that strength and resilience. Lucas was born in Argentina, but it was in France in 2015 that he began his professional career. When he looked to expand his horizons beyond then playing field, he found a unique opportunity with his rugby club’s business side.
Now, Lucas is working with the UNIQORN incubator to continue to develop opportunities for entrepreneurs that want to be part of a community, while putting in the work necessary to get to the next level.
In episode 256 of the AM/PM Podcast, Tim and Lucas discuss:
- 02:15 – Growing Up with a Dream of Pro Sports
- 04:30 – An Offer from a French Pro Club Gets Lucas Started
- 06:30 – Connecting with a Rugby Family
- 09:15 – Blending Both Passions
- 11:45 – Building a Community of Business and Sport
- 13:30 – Friendship, the Family That You Pick
- 16:40 – An Injury and a Lesson in Resilience
- 23:00 – Balancing Priorities
- 24:30 – It All Comes Down to Passion (and Hard Work)
- 27:00 – Working with the UNIQORN Incubator
- 29:00 – Is It Digital Marketing That Makes This All Possible?
- 32:00 – Entrepreneurship is Always Going to Involve Risk
- 33:30 – How to Find Out More About Lucas and UNIQORN
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Tim Jordan: Many of us, in some form or another, watch professional athletes. I think that we’re always impressed with the focus that it takes for them to get to the point where they’re at. But what happens after that career ends? On today’s episode, we have a guest who is a professional athlete talking about himself and others transitioning to the business world. There are a lot of great lessons in this episode. Make sure to listen to the end. We’ll see you inside.
Tim Jordan: Hi, I’m Tim Jordan. In every corner of the world, entrepreneurship is growing. So, join me as I explore the stories of successes and failures. Listen in as I chat with the risk takers, the adventurers, and the entrepreneurial veterans. We all have a dream of living a life, fulfilling our passions, and we want a business that doesn’t make us punch a time clock, but instead runs around the clock in the AM and the PM. So, get motivated. Get inspired. You’re listening to the AM/PM Podcast.
Bradley Sutton: Hey guys, Bradley Sutton from Helium 10 here. Quick message. If you’re an FBA business owner, you’ve maybe put thousands of hours of hard work into growing your business, but what happens when you’ve grown it as much as you can and you don’t have the time or resources to take it to that next level? Well, that’s where Thrasio comes in. They acquire category leading FBA brands from small business owners, just like you. They’ve got the experience of acquiring over 125 Amazon businesses, and they’ve seen it all when it comes to managing and growing an Amazon brand. So, if you’re thinking about selling your FBA business, visit thrasio.com/helium 10 to connect with the Thrasio deals team. That’s thrasio.com/helium10. For more information on if your brand is a good fit for Thrasio.
Tim Jordan: Hey everybody, this is Tim Jordan, and you’re listening to the AM/PM Podcast. Welcome to the episode. We talk about all things entrepreneurship, but not everybody that is an entrepreneur or business leader started out that way. And our guest today is coming from France, where he’s recording right now. He is going to talk about his journey from the non-business world to the business world. I think it’s something that we all run into. It’s something that a lot of us that maybe listening to this podcast have had to struggle with at some point. This guest is actually a pro athlete. And when we think about pro athletes moving into business, we think of big names like Shaquille O’Neal, these moguls that turn into great Titans of industry. My experience has been, through personal relations, that most athletes or semi-pro athletes have a really hard time transitioning because they’ve spent their entire life, in high school and their collegiate career, focusing on sports and not focusing on or learning about things like business. So sometimes it’s a little tough transition. The good news is these athletes often have some really great life lessons, some really great wisdom, some really great drive and focus, and habits that allow them to do very well at business. So, some of that transitions over and makes it a little bit easier. Let’s go ahead and welcome Lucas. Lucas, nice to meet you.
Lucas: Hey, Tim. It’s a pleasure being on your show. Thank you for having me.
Tim Jordan: So, I know that there’s a lot of really great information that you want to share in this episode. You’re even doing some cool things right now, like running an entrepreneurship incubator, that’s making great strides and you’re doing a lot of digital marketing and digital branding for professional athletics teams even. We want to get into all of that, but first I want to hear your story, right? You’re in France, but you’re originally from Argentina. You are, by profession, a rugby player, which automatically makes you one of the toughest guys in the world, in my opinion. Let’s take like five or 10 minutes here. And I just want to hear your story. Tell us how you started in Argentina playing rugby to where you’re at right now.
Lucas: Sure. Thank you for the introduction. And a bit about myself, as you said, I’m from Argentina. When I was a kid or when I was younger, I had a dream to become a professional athlete, a professional rugby player. I knew that back home there were no professional teams so that I had to go somewhere else. If I wanted to fulfill my dream, I had to work hard to get that opportunity. I probably waited longer than I wanted because sometimes things don’t come easily or don’t come whenever you expect them. In 2015, I actually got an offer from a professional club here in France. Second division, which is completely professional to join them. It was the middle of the season for them. So, they needed me pretty quick. They actually called me one day and they said, “Hey, are you ready? Yeah I’m in. Call me in. They said, “Okay, I’ll send you a ticket. You fight tonight.” I was shocked, right? I mean, just say goodbye to my family, to my girlfriend, see you soon, to just hop on a plane and come to France that day.
Tim Jordan: You’ll have to educate me here because I don’t know a ton about Rugby because I’m an American and we don’t play Rugby. But when I think of Argentina, I don’t think of Rugby. Obviously, I think of soccer. You just said that Argentina doesn’t have a professional Rugby program. So, how did you get involved and how did you decide that rugby was for you? Was it tough being in a country where it’s not heavily focused on?
Lucas: Actually, people might not know, but Rugby is quite a big sport back in Argentina. I mean, of course it’s not soccer, which everyone plays soccer, even myself. I even tried for a year. When I was young, I played on one of the big teams in Argentina just to try and see what happened. I’m not judging, but I didn’t feel as comfortable playing soccer. When I think of rugby, when I speak of rugby, I think of it like a family, my home, and that’s what rugby is for me. A lot of people have been into the sport some way or another, because you can be into rugby without actually playing. You could be supporting. You could be helping. There’s lots of ways to become part of that family. It’s like we speak the same language, so there’s no language barrier between us. We connect right away. You immediately feel part of that big family, no matter where you are, no matter where you come from, there’s that synergy between us that makes difference. That’s one of the things I love the most about rugby. That feeling of being part of something a lot bigger than ourselves.
Tim Jordan: So, you get called up, you jump on a plane, and you’re going to France with less than a day’s warning.
Lucas: Yeah, that was six years ago. I’m still in France. I’m still playing professional Rugby. But once, I mean, I played like for a whole season, doing just that, right? So, it was focusing 100% on Rugby. By the end of that season, I started asking myself, because I was always like a bit, not anxious, but I always wanted more. I’m a big competitor. I asked myself do I want to just play rugby, or do I want to do something else? So I started studying management, to have two and a half careers. I did it all online. And again, once I finished, I continued to play, but I had that feeling that I wanted something else. I started looking to get more involved in the business world. I was already involved in some way or another. When I was back out in Argentina, when I was 18, I founded a catering company, which I had for like seven years. I also funded my wife’s shoe shop with our personal designs. So, I’ll always consider myself an entrepreneur. And again, when that moment came to decide, what else am I doing apart from Rugby, this opportunity to join the Incubator came. I met the founder and we connected right away. He was building what we are doing now, and completely blew my mind off. I wanted to be a part of that challenge, part that adventure. We’ve actually,… it’s very interesting that you asked what I am going to do when I end my career? How do I transition from one thing to the other? We’ve asked ourselves that question and we want to frame it in a different way. We said, “Why do we need to finish one to begin the other one?” So, we put a system in place that allows our rugby players to play professionally, but also to become a part of the club on the business development side. They are actually working for a private company at the same time that they are playing professional rugby. And since we manage both sides, we can actually play around with the amount of time that you invest on one side or the other.
Tim Jordan: And is that pretty unusual for professional athletics to also be encouraged to focus their time on something else? Because it seemed like it might not work. Like, it seems like most professional teams would not want this going on. Is that accurate?
Lucas: I think we are the only ones. I don’t want it to be egocentric, but I don’t think there’s anyone else that’s doing exactly what we are doing. Because most of the teams are either amateurs, semi professionals, which the only – what does that mean? Probably that they pay their players a little bit for playing, but then they have a job on the side, a regular job, but us it’s like we are playing professionally. So we train three, four times a week during the day, during working hours. And when we are not training, we are at the office we’re working. So we just balanced that out to make it work. I think that’s pretty unique. And why we did it is because there’s also this feeling of belonging. That’s very important. So we are actually helping the team. We are a small team in France, right? We are in the fifth division match. And our objective is to actually get to the – at least second division, which is professional. But there’s a long road, right? What we are building is pretty big, so we need to give ourselves the means to do it. And if you get players involved in the business development side and they are on and off the page, the results, we believe, are much bigger because that feeling of belonging and involvement makes them work harder on both sides.
Tim Jordan: And I understand that there are so many attributes that athletes have, professional athletes, that make them good at a lot of things in life. Right. And I understand what you’re saying, not many people are making that bridge, making that connection of transitioning athletes to business. And I think it’s great that you’re trying to attempt to do that and that it’s working so far, but let’s talk a little bit about some of the things that you’ve learned as a professional athlete that has made you better in life at business, right. I know that you call rugby the school of life. Can you explain what that means?
Lucas: I think it teaches you not just how to play rugby, but actually how to live. I think you get values out of rugby that are way more important than just sports that can be put into different contexts, like business or life in general that are very, very important that make you different. Again, I don’t want to sound egocentric but a couple of values that you’re been taught ever since you’re a kid. I started playing rugby when I was 6. 5 or 6, and ever since I remember my coaches telling me rugby was for friends for instance, was for that sense of family that I spoke before and to people I speak to today. My friends, my actual real friends, my group of people that I love that will do anything for them. They’re all from rugby. I met them 25 years ago and I’ll do anything for them. Because I mean, they’ve done it for me. I know that I can counter them no matter what. And that sense of friendship, but it’s much more than just friendship. I like to go into family, but it’s actually the family that you pick. Real family, you get it. You love it, but this is actually the people who you choose to be with that you choose to have a relationship with. And that’s a very strong feeling that makes you do unnatural things, makes you go over the finish line and makes you want to push harder for the one that you have besides you. That happens through sports. And I think rugby is a great example of that. And you said that we are pretty tough. We kind of are, but not because of ourselves, but because we’ve got 14 people around us that need us, and that’s something that anyone that plays a team sports knows that you’re needed. You need to do your job, team, if not, then someone else has to do it for you. And they’ll be doing both things at the same time. That cannot work. But if I have to, I’ll do it for you because I love you, because you’re my friend, you’re my teammate. And I’ll do anything for you.
Tim Jordan: I think the teamwork thing is appropriate. And I think it’s applicable and a lot of times entrepreneurs and business owners forget that because we think of ourselves as lone wolves and solopreneurs. And what I’ve learned, especially in the e-commerce world is that I am so much more powerful with the community around me. It doesn’t mean that I have to be business partners with everybody. It doesn’t mean that I have to share all my industry secrets and research with everybody, but just surrounding myself with people that can help pull me up, encourage me. I can encourage them. They can keep me saying they can hold me accountable. I can learn from them. They can learn from me. Like that’s amazing. We just got back a couple of weeks ago from the Prosper show in Vegas. And it was like meeting my family, right? These people I haven’t seen in a year and a half or two years because of COVID, because they really are that important to me and to my business. So, one of the biggest struggles that especially new entrepreneurs have is the struggles, the problems like business is not always easy, right? And there’s always things that are going to pop up and you have to be tenacious. You have to be tough. You have to learn how to overcome that adversity and not give up. Because if you go through those times, those challenges and you survive on the back end of them, you take those lessons and apply them going forward. It makes you much more powerful. I know that professional athletes have a lot to say about overcoming adversity. What can you tell us about how rugby has taught you to overcome adversity and what are some of those lessons that you can share with us?
Lucas: Yeah. I mean, resilience is one of the big words that you learn through rugby. I had a pretty tough situation when I was back in 2014, I think. I broke my knee in the game at the end of the season. I had my ligaments broken to leave off. I remember it as clear as it was today, getting a kid trying to stand up on my knee, just going everywhere. Right. And I called the doctor. The doctor was a guy that I knew for a long period of time and that he always tried to keep you pushing. So I told you, Hey, it’s through my knee right away, get this dropped so I can give going. He looked at me and he said, no, I mean, not this time. It’s like, what do you mean? Not this time. Go ahead, stop it. I want to keep going. I was like, ah, I don’t think this is going to be up there. Just don’t do it today. Then after two or three times that he repeated that I started to realize that something was really wrong. Right. So, I mean, make it a bit shorter. I had to go through surgery. No other way. My position on one of the quick guys should be one of the quickest of the team. A knee surgery can mean that you are not getting back in shape, and can mean lots of things. So yes. I question myself, was it the end? Am I going to be able to come back to my standards, let’s say, to my level? So, I remember a couple of things that drove me on that, helped me during that time. The first thing was that we knew the fixer was full, the next season that was coming. And our first game was we were playing against one of the best teams back home. And I was like, I don’t want to miss this game. We need to do anything to make it happen. So, I started counting the days and it ended up because you get exhibition games to prepare before the actual first game of the season. Right. So, we had three exhibition games before that first game. And I count it up. It was five months and one week it’s like, okay, that’s pretty bad. I asked the surgeon, how long do I need to come back to recover, fully recovered. He said six to eight months. I’ve never seen it done in less than six. So I went to my coach on the guy that I appreciate very much and thought he was a great guy and great coach and told him, Hey, I’m in this situation. I want to play the first game. I don’t want to miss it. By that time, I never had trouble playing in the team. I was one of the best I would say. So, how many exhibition games do you need me to play to put me on that first game? It’s like, look me in the eyes and say, I need you to play all three. It’s like, come on, give me a break. I mean, you know I can be very good. Let me play at least one exhibition game. And then, if you don’t play all three, I won’t put you in the first game. I was like, come on, I can’t come back from a knee surgery in five months. It’s like, well, and you’ll probably start a bit further down the line.
Lucas: So, I had that thing in my head, that conviction that – I don’t know what to call it – that mentality that helped me push it further. I kept doing as much as I could to get to that finish line. And that finish line for me, it was five months and one week, it’s pretty moving to think about it because it was pretty tough. Right. I knew that I only had that much time. I had to do tons of things to get it done and probably I wouldn’t get it done ever because as my surgeon said, that’s probably never going to happen. You could stay step by step, and had a great physician. I did everything I could. I literally mean everything. I mean, I remember the guys telling me, you should be starting as soon as you’ve gotten okay. As soon as you can, let’s start now. What do you mean now? You just had surgery. Yeah. That started out anyway. You said, I’ll say as soon as I can, I can now. The good thing about this story is that five months and one week after my surgery, I was getting ready to play – I actually played for 10 minutes. The coach didn’t say how long I should be playing in the first game. So, 10 minutes was more than enough. But then 10 minutes in the first game, 60 in the second, play the whole game, the third game, and then the first game of the season. Good thing about this story is that I actually played the whole game, which just shows you that if you’re willing to do what it takes, and you put chances on your side, you give yourself more possibilities, you can get it done. And I think that that shows you a lot of what you can do also on the business side.
Tim Jordan: So going back to business, you touched on something that I want to come back to. And that is that many of these semi-pro athletes were not getting paid very much to have a job, or a lot of even pro athletes start transitioning into some sort of secondary career because you can’t be a pro athlete forever. Most people listening to this podcast are not, or have not ever been professional athletes. Right? But a lot of us started with a different career. We started doing something. We decided, Hey, we want to start our own business. We’re going to start our own brand. We want to create our own products. So there’s a transition period from having the thing that paid our paychecks into the thing we wanted to do next. Can you talk about, and I will say this for all of you listening. I’m not just asking Lucas’s opinion here. He runs an incubator that does this. He works with dozens and dozens of professional athletes and semi-pro athletes that are doing this. So his advice is going to be coming from a large sampling, not just himself, but Lucas, tell us about the balance that it takes between your primary career and your fledgling, your oncoming second career. How do you balance your time and focus and priorities for what you need to be doing one or two years from now with what you have to be doing right now?
Lucas: The first thing I would say is get started. I mean there’s no time to lose whatever you push forward in time and a bit later. But it is very interesting that you asked this question because I think you can juggle both things at the same time somehow. And the same happens with a regular job. I mean, you’re working from nine to five. What are you doing the rest of the 16 hours? You’d call them today. I mean this is always something else to do and that it all comes back in my opinion. And this is something we look for whenever we are approaching or a client approaches us. I think it all comes back to passion and love. If you do what you really like, what you are really passionate about, that you wouldn’t mind spending time on, it wouldn’t become a burden and you will do it happily. You’ll probably do it a lot more effectively because you enjoy what you do. And that gives you an edge, which is huge, and for me, it’s a must. I’m thankful and very happy to be doing both of my passions at the same time. I don’t think many people even find that, buying courage for everyone to search for that passion, that it is somewhere out there. Just if you do what you like, what you really enjoy doing, you’ll do it a lot better and you’ll spend as much time as needed to get it going. Biggest problems at the beginning with every entrepreneur comes back to funding, comes back to timing, comes back to finding the right people. And if you’re not willing to do the job yourself at the beginning, nobody’s going to do it for you. As you said, having a business, one, it’s a risk. We need to know that there’s a risk for having a business. We just need to put the chances on our side and try to lower that risk as much as we can, and then having a business, it means that you need to put effort into it. You need to get it running. You need to do lots and lots of things. You need to run your team. And that takes time. I mean, that takes effort. Work. So, work ethics, that mentality of getting things done. And yeah, that’s what we look for in an entrepreneur, in a guy that’s running a startup, running a company that would like to work with us. We will always look for those values, those attributes, whenever we decide to work with someone.
Tim Jordan: So tell me now about Unicorn, which is your startup incubator. I know that it’s actually, the concept is not new, but the business itself is very new, but it’s growing very, very rapidly. Just give me a brief intro to what that is. And then I’ll have a few questions to follow up on that.
Lucas: Sure. Basically we are a startup incubator accelerator. So, we come from the digital marketing space. Our founder has been doing it for 28 years and that’s our main focus. So, we run customer acquisition campaigns. We do article syndication, SEO, ASO. We deal with investors funding rounds. We basically support and help grow businesses. We take this startup world as the American way. So, you pretty much know that concept probably. So, for us a startup, it’s not just an idea in our heads, a startup is actually something running. So, you’ve got a proof of concept, a couple of clients, and you’ve convinced at least two grandmothers to invest in your business even if it’s a hundred bucks. That shows that you are a further step down the line, and not just, yes, I have this brilliant idea. Okay, well, on our side where I would say not interested, there’s lots of incubators or people that are willing to help you with that. It’s not just our business model. We are for the step down life, because we think that what we do, what we bring to the table whenever we invest ourselves and we help you out, doesn’t have an impact if you are not on that stage yet. That’s one of the key questions that we ask ourselves whenever we decide to work with someone is what are we bringing to the table? What are we doing for this client in order to accelerate them to make them grow? What’s our added value to this relationship?
Tim Jordan: Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Where do you think the importance is in digital marketing? Right. Because you’re talking about starting this with a founder that is heavily involved in digital marketing. Do you think this would have been possible without that experience? Do you think that’s very important for any businesses in today’s environment?
Lucas: Well, yeah. I mean, the internet has been down for like 28 years and it’s growing every, every single day and nothing happens without digital marketing today, actually. You guys in the AM/PM shows speak a lot about e-commerce. That shows that digital marketing’s key to success. Right. And we have a different focus maybe for our campaigns. We do have very good ASL on SEO, organic traffic resources. We think that people are already searching for things out there. Well, let’s get our content search full, let’s get organic views. Let’s get those eyeballs. At the end of the day, it all comes down to how many people I’ve seen my stuff. And then it all comes back to the funnel to start dropping people in, and you know your conversion rates. And then you just try to take the friction away with tests, with what’s going on into the actual deal. And that’s how we see. So yeah, I’ll ask the question is just that marketing today is crucial to success in every single business, even though some people don’t face it yet or don’t really invest themselves into it. And one of the things that we like to say a lot, it’s not about how am I going to do it, but it’s about who, so who is the appropriate person or business or company to do this? Because there’s pretty much always someone that’s more qualified or that knows what they’re doing. So, that’s trying to find those experts.
Tim Jordan: Yeah, that makes complete sense. And I think that there are so many lessons that we can take from this episode. From the power of digital marketing in a world that might not immediately seem heavily online. I think that there’s interesting takeaways from this episode about just physical characteristics and traits of humans that are successful, right? Tenacity, the willingness to get back up, whether your knee was smashed or whether you had a business fail in the past, you have to get up and keep going. I like what you said about life being short, right? Like the way that you balance your current gig or career with the one that you want to be in is understanding that there’s not a lot of time. Like our life is fairly sure you got to get started right now, even if it’s just a little bit, anything worth having is going to be hard. It’s not going to be simple. We’re going to have to spend those extra hours, maybe give up some other luxuries and just go after it. Right?
Lucas: Sure. I mean, I think that’s one of the other things to note. It doesn’t come easy because if you accept that thought at the beginning before you actually start you dive into it, you know what you expect, you know what you are running into, and you’ll be ready. The worst thing that can happen is I know we’ve met people like that. Oh, it’s so hard to run my best as well. Then you’re not in the right sector. You’re not doing what you should be doing because you’re not meant to be running a business. It’s not for everyone. And the people that are trying to be entrepreneurs and that are diving into the business world are not on that side should know that there’s a big risk and there’s lots of work to do. And once you accept that fact, then you’re a lot more prepared to dive into and get it done.
Tim Jordan: Well, we’re coming up on the end of our time. We need to go ahead and wrap it up, but Hey, I appreciate you being online and willing to share some of your experience and some of your stories. I think that even though I said most of our listeners are not professional athletes, I think that everybody understands that we all as humans have a lot of the same needs and characteristics and wants and priorities. And I think it’s exceptionally interesting to talk to somebody who is figuring out that balance from one career to another, not just yourself but others. So if someone wanted to find out more about your incubator, they could probably go to the – what’s the website?
Lucas: Uniqornincubator.com. Uniqorn is reading with a Q, instead of a C. That’s got a difference.
Tim Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s Uniqorn, right? Uniqorn with the Q, incubator.com. So if any of you are interested, go ahead and check that out. I think it’s pretty cool stuff that’s going on and thank you Lucas, for being on before we sign off, are there any last words of wisdom you want to drop?
Lucas: Not really, Tim. I would like to thank you for your time too, for being on the show and just encouraging people to go ahead and do it. Like, just accept the challenge. As I said, one of the things that drives me is the challenge, the adventure, being part of that big thing, that big picture is what keeps you going. And go ahead.
Tim Jordan: Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for being on. Thank you all for listening. Make sure to share this if you find any value in it. Give us a thumbs up if you’re watching on YouTube or a review if you’re listening on a podcast channel. We will see you guys in the next episode.